Need clarification about shopping plaza
AkaganiN0Shanks-PGO Posts: 5 ✭✭
My nomination for a 5 floor shopping plaza with a lot of small shops inside was just refused with the comment "The real-world location of the nomination appears to represent a generic store or restaurant"
Using the new criteria "A great place to be social with others" , which includes "Parks and plazas", it should have been accepted. It doesn't need to contain a MacDonald or a Disney store to qualify.
Is my understanding correct?
Its a local hotspot, you can be social there, its important for the people. It should definately be eligeble. Just dont submit single shops/stores and it should be alright.
The new criteria just came out so it may take some time before everyone catches up
I think you may be getting mixed up with possible multiple meanings of "plaza". A plaza could be: 1. an open space in a town, or 2. a shopping centre. I think Niantic have the first definition in mind, not shopping centres.
However, "Parks and plazas" is an example under both the "great place to exercise", and the "great place to be social with others" criteria. Use your description and supporting statement to focus on the criterion you think it meets, and give good evidence why it meets this criterion. If you think your shopping centre a great place to exercise, then say so in the supporting statement. If you really think it is a great place to meet and socialize, then you probably need to made a stronger case in the supporting statement.
Interesting question, @AkaganiN0Shanks-PGO! As you're aware, Parks and Plazas should be an eligible nomination as they are public places. Concurring to what @LukeAllStars-PGO and @Pangarban-ING mentioned Shopping Plazas should be eligible however should have multiple shops/stores.
Secondly, someone may have already made a nomination on various objects/placemarkers around entrances, which could lead to a rejection (as a duplicate).
Last but not the least, while submitting a nomination please enter detailed information of the nomination in the description on how it should be eligible so reviewers while voting on them should have better idea & understanding. I hope you find this helpful, all the best!
A common type of nomination in my area is the main sign for little shopping precints, which usually list every generic buiness in the zone.
Is that still outide the criteria cos the sign itelf isn't a gathering spot/plaza?
Or should we move to accept?
So wait, does that mean shopping centers are now acceptable? Not sure what a shopping plaza in America is in terms of a shopping center in UK, but simply put a shopping center is usually a building with several shops inside, some range from a tesco owning the building with a few smaller shops inside, to fill building owns by the local area with shops inside like cafes, chain shops, local owned shops etc.
🙄 yes if you read the comment by nianticgrifdard he is saying they are eligible. But you still have to provide information in supporting/description as to how that shopping centre should be eligible. Ie is it a social gathering spot, public access, what makes it culturally/historically important. If you just submit a picture of a shopping plaza name and say “shopping plaza” and thats it you will most likely get rejected as you don’t show how it meets criteria
They were never explicitly not acceptable, and they still aren't explicitly.
It still must meet criteria and not be generic, must be "visually unique," and "interesting."
Based on the category being named "parks and plazas", I never thought of this as a shopping plaza... but rather more that which would be in line with a park, such as:
a: a public square in a city or town
b: an open area usually located near urban buildings and often featuring walkways, trees and shrubs, places to sit, and sometimes shops
Since when does someone go shopping as "A great place for exercise"? Is this the same as a "shopping mall", or a "s t r i p mall", or what does a shopping plaza entail? We don't use this term around here, so this is likely feeding into my confusion.
Also, "someone may have already made a nomination on various objects/placemarkers around entrances" - does this mean that a shopping plaza sign is acceptable?
And finally - if a shopping plaza has a number of businesses in it, wouldn't it be more likely to simply nominate one (or more) of the businesses instead - that meets criteria for being a "local hangout", "unusual or unique local shop", "popular restaurant" or "favorite coffee shop"?
Sorry, that was long-winded...
Would this extend to a group of open air shopping centers along roads ("str!p malls") and outlet shopping centers, so long as there is a group of them and it is a frequent gathering location?
Thats what I'm wondering
I'm with @Diskrepansi-ING ... we don't use the phrase 'shopping plaza' here, so I'm really not sure how to interpret this. A plaza just means a flat area of paving stones where I come from, which I suppose might make it a 'place to meet up', but that seems to be setting an amazingly low threshold for acceptance as it's unlikely to be in any way culturally or historically significant, so I guess that's not what @NianticGiffard meant?
Could you show us a photo of an acceptable shopping plaza, @NianticGiffard, so Europeans know what you're talking about?
Please please further clarify this statement. It's already being used by a certain problematic individual to justify businesses that in no way meet eligibility requirements. It reads like "any shopping center with multiple businesses is eligible" and I really don't think that's what Niantic intends.
Problematic people like Gabriel (AKA TimerClock)? I've been seeing a lot of his rantings on the Wayfarer Subreddit recently, but he outed himself when he stated that the new criteria meant that trees were eligible. And then there was the post claiming that Walmart is a social gathering spot for shopping. :rolleyes:
I think a shopping plaza/mall/shopping centre is definitely a great place to be social, and can be eligible under the new criteria. They are a good place to meet friends, have coffee shops, bars and restaurants, and usually some interesting architecture or art pieces inside too, which can be eligible in their own right of course, but also mean that the shopping centre as a whole can be seen as an attraction and important to the local community.
Definition of plaza, according to Oxford Learner's Dictionaries:
No wonder if there are any of you who will refer to the definition (1).
And I think statement from @NianticGiffard is already clear here, if it cover definition (1) and (2). Not sure for the (3), though.
* Fun tips: for definition (3), here in Indonesia we call it "Rest Area", so I would like to know if it may also eligible, though.
Yes, them among others. People who don't understand their background (or even not seeing comments directly by that individual) see comments like "Shopping Plazas should be eligible however should have multiple shops/stores" and then you start getting people insisting it's OK to nominate and approve all stripp malls and shopping plazas. It's also a step back towards categorical eligibility that 3.1 aimed to refresh (while ironically offering suggested categorically eligible examples).
You will still have to show proof in supporting how that shopping plaza would meet criteria. I could see a food court in the shopping plaza being a social gathering area for friends to eat and chat together
The way I put it in another comment thread:
One might host a parade or public meeting in the Town Square, and as such "Squares" can absolutely be valid locations.
But there has to be SOMEthing notable enough about it, beyond just "this paved/tiled space is big enough for people to be able to gather in".
Niantic haaaaates having those hard-to-differentiate "edge" cases, especially stuff that doesn't fit immediately in barely-a-sentence descriptions in their new Criteria. But "plaza" and "courtyard" and "square" all have widely varying definitions.
I believe that yes, (was it @NianticGiffard?) they said that even a shopping mall can qualify as a "plaza". But! And importantly but! Where do you anchor the wayspot's location? It feels very very wrong to say "this is a big empty space in the middle of a mall, with nothing at the spot but a ceiling and a bunch of floor tiles" should qualify.
I was thinking probably the mall entrance sign? Unless the food court has something unique about it which is doubtful.
Well, if the food court has something unique about it, that just means it would be a non-redundant second wayspot at the same mall!
True enough but you atleast id think need a food court to even submit most shopping plazas. In my mind 😅
So many Dundalk Walmart nominations with the same copy/pasted supporting text
"Love the new criteria of Wayfarer 3.0. Please update yourself to the guidance. Per November AMA referring to guidance is acceptable. https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/10030/need-clarification-about-shopping-plaza"
That's Gabriel alright. He's taken up a new nym "MasterWayfarer" on Reddit in order to fool people.
@NianticGiffard this is why I asked for clarification to help avoid certain abusive people from making nominations that misrepresent your comments.
when they released the newest criteria they are intentionally leaving it vague to allow more nominations to go through. They dont want to corner themselves with endless clarifications like they did with the old criteria.
He said they are eligible as long as you have multiple shops/stores in the plaza. Leave it at that and he also said to put in the description WHY you think it should be approved.
leave it at that. If you see someone nominate a walmart that obviously doesnt meet any criteria so reject it based off that.
if someone submits a mall and in there supporting information they give you many reasons as to why such place is good for socializing, exploration or exercise rate accordingly.
they don’t want to have to hold everyones hands through every little bit of criteria. Use common sense read supporting info and make a choice off of that
Would these two examples be acceptable waypoints?
I would 1* both the photos above - generic business / business park signs. Does not meet criteria.
Shopping plazas are not eligable. They are nothing more than glorified parking lots surrounded by stores. There may be things in a shopping plaza that may be eligible—such as fountains, sculptures, murals, etc.—but the plaza itself is not. The types of plaza that are being referred to in the eligibility cirtiera are those meant to be places where people gather for social or cultural events.
You can nominate the gymnastics club more than likely. It obviously encourages physical exercise and as well it can encourage socialising if classes are done in large groups