Definition of voting to Accept or Reject
What's the definition of accepting/rejecting a nomination?
If you vote one star any where, do you automatically get counted as rejecting the nomination? For example, for a basketball court, baseball field, tennis court, playground...ie any place that has no Historic or cultural significance and is not visually unique, if I vote like...
Should this be a Wayspot? 5
Title and Description 5
Historic or Cultural Significance 1
Visually Unique 1
Safe Access 5
does it get counted as me rejecting it?
I've got...
Total Nominations Reviewed 940
Nominations Accepted 196
Nominations Rejected 190
Nominations Duplicated 21
I got a Fair score. It's looking like something in my voting is making me disagree with the other voters. My own nominations have nearly a 100% rate of being approved, so I obviously know what would be a good Wayspot! Instead I end up with a four hour/day ban!
Comments
If you rate 1* to a criteria (at your example, you give 1* to historical/cultural significance and visually unique) them it would lead to instant rejection, even if you give 5* to overall rating. You're most likely reviewing in a wrong way, hence you got a cooldown.
Sport fields and playgrounds should not to be rated 1*-2* on their historical/cultural significance and visually unique, even if you think they're not unique at all.
Ok so for your first question. If you rate a 1* or 2* on any category you are effectively giving it a rejection.
Historical and cultural significance can be rated as in how important to the community it would be. So a sportfield, playground would be very culturally relevant as communities base events around them and have alot of involvement for sportfields and playgrounds are typically very great gathering points for communities especially with children to help develope social skills while still being outside and playing. Generally rate 4-5*
For visually unique it really means “can you identify this if you are in the vicinity of the poi in question”. So if you walk up to a playground how easy is it to find it. So in majority of cases all sports fields and playgrounds are generally 4-5 in this aspect as they are easily distinguishable.
Having a below 50% agreement rate isnt really a great thing considering you may have inadvertently rejected perfectly fine poi’s with how you rate them low for those categories effectively tanking them to just get the agreement.
Is this correct? I use Wayfarer+ and the tracker only marks as rejected those I rated 1* and 2* in the first question and I think that question is the only one that counts towards an agreement. The others may influence the result somehow but it isn't clear to me that they do.
If the nomination is rejected and you gave any category a 1-2* rating you’d get an agreement for the rejection.
If you give 1-2* on any category its a rejecting rate. Many people on the forum will agree with this lol
Yes, but the point is not what the people think the system is, but what it actually is. Is that mechanic stated in writing somewhere, was deduced by experimentation and posted by someone or is just a widely accepted guess with no basis on any solid information?
It's based on the people that want everything approved.
You can get rejection reasons for both categories. Something in the line of "Doesn't appear to be visually unique" and " Doesn't appear to be historically or culturally relevant". Which suggests you can reject the nomination by giving low rating in any of the two categories. I've had multiple nominations rejected with only one of the two mentioned rejection reason. Usually coincidence with Niantic lowering level so more players can begin reviewing.
NOTHING IS STATED IN WRITING ANYWHERE ABOUT HOW ANY OF THIS WORKS. Niantic works from the premise that the more information you give people, the easier it will be for them to game the system. So they leave us to stumble around in the dark and figure it out for ourselves. This system has been in place for years and enough people have used it that we have their experience to draw from.
YES. It works as described to you. A 1* or 2* rating in any part of the nomination means you are rejecting it. It doesn't matter what overall rating you give the nomination.
YOU ARE VOTING INCORRECTLY ON CULTURAL RELEVANCE AND VISUAL UNIQUENESS.
I don't have a reason for not believing you, but if I take it as true that means I have rejected almost everything so far as I normally equate 1* with "the question is not relevant to this nomination" and 2* with "barely", particularly on either visual uniqueness or cultural relevance. Somehow that doesn't seem to match what happened to the nominations or my reviewer rating.
Anyway, while I understand the need of not revealing exactly how the system works, some better guidance is needed to avoid accidently rejecting things that we mean to be approved.
Reviewers shouldn't second guess the workings of the Niantic algorithm and just be honest in their reviews. I'm being honest, I'm not ALL CAPS VOTING INCORRECTLY.
Niantic have changed their POI criteria to allow for wayspots of no cultural/historic value. If I 5* gym equipment in a park, but 1-2* its historic/cultural value, it's because I'm following the official guidelines - https://niantic.helpshift.com/a/wayfarer/?p=web&s=how-to-review-wayspots&f=reviewing-a-wayspot-nomination&l=en
Niantic have changed their criteria. I'm not going to be dishonest based on out of date guess work from before the change.
YOU ARE NOT VOTING CORRECTLY IF YOU 1* OR 2* CULTURAL RELEVANCE FOR PARK GYM EQUIPMENT. The link you gave does not tell you that gym equipment is NOT culturally relevant. It just says that a 100 year old library is MORE culturally relevant than gym equipment.
Think about Niantic's own mission statement.
"Niantic’s mission is to use emerging technology to enrich our experiences as human beings in the physical world. We build products that inspire movement, exploration, and face-to-face social interaction. By turning the world itself into a game, we hope to motivate our players to head outside, visit new places close to home and far away, to see the world with new perspective, and to play together with friends and family in games that span and unite the entire planet."
Does gym equipment get people to do any of those things? Then it is culturally relevant. It absolutely inspires movement, gets people to head outside, and maybe some of the other things listed. It may not be a 5* like the library, but it is at least a 3* because it helps meet the goals of Niantic's mission.
Nowhere in any definition in any dictionary anywhere are you going to see "inspires movement" as being culturally relevant.
I'm more likely to move my bowels where there is a toilet. 3* from Seaprincess.
Reviewers should be honest and interpret the instructions as given in plain English. You should ignore anyone who tells you otherwise based on their reading of the tea leaves.
The Page you are referencing also says :
"Rating Scale
You will be asked various questions about a nomination and answer by rating on a scale of one to five stars. In general, use the following guidelines when deciding how to vote:
"Cultural" is not strictly related to "arts and culture", it's a large concept : ex. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/culture
As an addition to the last comment from @SeaprincessHNB-PGO : anything that brings people to exercice, explore or socialize will have at least 3* for its "Historic or Cultural Significance".
Same thing for the "Visual Uniqueness" rating, I agree with @Jtronmoore-PGO
Niantic's guidelines for historical/cultural significance are to use your best judgement. This is the exact quote:
How much historical or cultural significance does the nomination hold within the community? A local library built 100 years ago is certainly more historically and culturally significant than exercise equipment in a park. Use your best judgement and rate the nomination accordingly.
There are people who will vociferously assert that giving any category 1*/2* is a rejection of the entire submission but I do not believe that to be true and I have never seen any evidence that leads me to believe that it is. Niantic has never provided that guidance, and as far as I can tell it's folklore based on the fact that sometimes "historical/cultural significance" is included in email as a rejection reason. I have never seen a single case where an otherwise high-quality submission was rejected with that as the sole rejection reason.
I would not be surprised if a 1*/2* rating for historical/cultural significance could be the thing that tips from acceptance to rejection for a mediocre submission that was already teetering on the edge. I don't know that to be fact, though, and I would not assert it as such.
Please stop spreading misinformation.
(Edit to add my bona fides: ~65% agreement rate over 17K reviews lifetime. 67% over 6300 reviews since January 1 2020.)
@NianticCasey-ING you've hinted at a few times lately that the way we review may be changing Soon™, but I think you'll understand that this debate is one we've been passionate about for years. Could you please offers some clarification on the topic? I've had a few nominations denied for "not being culturally or historically significant" or "not being visually unique," and I have friends who have had churches denied for the same reasoning, too.
Is it appropriate to use "personal opinion" and give churches or playgrounds 1* ratings in culture/visual even if the rest of the nomination is generally passable?
The point is that most people won't understand it that way, particularly those for whom English isn't their first language.
"Historic or Cultural Significance" is described as "Does this nomination have some historical or cultural significance?" and has a clear definition in the minds of the great majority of people, who would certainly consider that a playground rates 1*, acording to the rating advice you cited.
Likiwise, "Visually Unique" is described as "A visually unique nomination should not be something that is common in the area.". Define common. Are statues in a park common? Are graffities common? Evangelic churches? Parks?. Is area the immediate surroundings of the waypoint or a whole town?
So clearly, either the wording of the questions needs to change or their relevance to a rejection deprecated.
https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/11733/playground#latest
When reviewing we already know that if you get a rejection for any reason it doesn’t matter if its 5* in any category. 1 rejection reason would make the whole vote fail. 1/5 star or 2/5 are both failing grades.
I've been pondering on my reviewing process and I think a possible explanation is what I came to call "The 2* Treatment".
When reviewing I normally follow a patern of evaluating Rejection Criteria first, then Acceptance Criteria. Anything meeting Rejection Criteria will get 1* in the first question. That means I never rate 1* in the Title, Location or Pedestrian Access questions because 1* there goes directly to the first question, with reasons stated there. I also 1* in the first question submissions that fail Elegibility hard, usualy for one of the predefined reasons and more rarely for "other rejection criteria".
Now, submissions that just fail the aceptance test get 2* (or 3* if I think they barely meet them). In that case they would get a full review but the only questions that would have a low score would be Cultural or Historic Significance and/or Visually Unique. So if other reviewers do the same as me when evaluating the submission, the agreement would be 2*, rejected, and the stated reason would be that either isn't culturally significan or isn't visually unique which, when it comes to think about it, correctly describes a submission that doesn't trigger Rejection, meets Elegibility but fails Acceptance.
I wrote a longer comment that I made disappear somehow, but I think that what may trigger "Visual Uniqueness" or "Cultural or Historical Significance" as rejection reasons are 2* agreements.
I normally rate anything that triggers Rejection Criteria or fails Elegibility Criteria as 1* in the first question, but submissions that don't trigger Rejection, meet Elegibility but fail Acceptance would get 2*. In those cases, the rejection emails will probably state "Visual Uniqueness" and/or "Cultural or Historical Significance" as rejection reason, as they would be the only failed questions.
These are mine
@Jtronmoore-PGO wrote:
When reviewing we already know that if you get a rejection for any reason it doesn’t matter if its 5* in any category. 1 rejection reason would make the whole vote fail. 1/5 star or 2/5 are both failing grades.
We do not know that. Some people believe it, but that does not mean that it is unquestionably true. Here's an example of something we know: The number of reviewers required for a submission is not fixed, and depends partially on the rating of the reviewers. How do we know that? Niantic told us.
Because there is no way to identify all of the reviewers for any submission there is no way to do a controlled experiment to prove or disprove that assertion. Until we can, or until Niantic tells us otherwise, it's a belief rather than knowledge.