Decorated poles, what's the deal?
Gendgi-PGO
Posts: 3,349 Ambassador
Wondering if the following could be considered eligible. Let's assume they are not on private residential property, and that there are adequate sidewalks leading to each one.
I'm inclined to rate the "pixies at play" and "squirrels climbing a pole" lower because they are obviously live animals vandalizing these wood totems. In all honestly, they look more temporary, but they could be permanent. I think they should be considered eligible if permanent as they add a fun and visual flare to something otherwise bland.
Thanks!
Best Answers
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GearGlider-ING
Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭✭✭
There's some relevant AMA clarifications about this
September 2018
Q75: In OPR, how should reviewers rate painted electrical boxes on the street if they are visually interesting?
A75: NIA OPS says that, “If it falls under the category of Art, 5 stars on “Should this be a Portal” question.”
November 2018
Q26: would tornado sirens count as a unique form of architecture that is prominent(sort of like water towers or windmills) in areas that have the need for them as an early warning system? They’re also normally
A26: I asked NIA OPS and they agreed that if they are unique in construction or have some sort of artwork associated with it like some painted electrical boxes do. Otherwise, if it is just a random loud speaker on a wooden pole - no.
So it looks like wooden poles with permanent artwork would be eligible.
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NianticCasey-ING
Posts: 538 admin
I really appreciate the respectful and thoughtful dialog on this thread, thanks for being collaborative everyone!
Chiming in here with my opinion, I do think that the first two (assuming that the decorations are paint therefore permanent) would be considered in line with the guidelines around utility boxes that have been decorated.
Even the pole with the squirrels on it could possibly be an eligible candidate as, although the items are mass produced, they're could be arranged in a manner where it could be considered an art installation.
The items in the last photo, however, are mass-produced and look more like decorations than art, I would say these are ineligible.
Answers
There's some relevant AMA clarifications about this
September 2018
Q75: In OPR, how should reviewers rate painted electrical boxes on the street if they are visually interesting?
A75: NIA OPS says that, “If it falls under the category of Art, 5 stars on “Should this be a Portal” question.”
November 2018
Q26: would tornado sirens count as a unique form of architecture that is prominent(sort of like water towers or windmills) in areas that have the need for them as an early warning system? They’re also normally
A26: I asked NIA OPS and they agreed that if they are unique in construction or have some sort of artwork associated with it like some painted electrical boxes do. Otherwise, if it is just a random loud speaker on a wooden pole - no.
So it looks like wooden poles with permanent artwork would be eligible.
Thank you, @GearGlider-ING! You provided a quality response citing historic Niantic guidance relevant to the thread. Thanks for keeping the discussion in line with this thread.
I'm not crazy about those last two; they look like someone took a few toys and tacked them on, and seem very temporary.
Those remind me of a case last year where someone "yarnbombed" a bunch of telephone poles, road signs, and trees in our town. We shortly considered submitting them, but only shortly... the city removed it all within a week.
Not to mention they appear as though they could easily be faked. I'm glad I'm not the only one with this concern.
Thanks for the constructive discussion.
Last two wouldn't be eligible. Tacking store-bought ornaments to a wooden post is not "Art"
I wonder how close of a private property they can be and still being valid, because almost every pole in my city in right in the front of a private property. Right in the sidewalk, not inside a property, but just like 2m (6feet) or less away from gate.
Here's one example. Its just few feet away from the walls.
I'm avoid submiting this one since 2017, because I aways thought it was a weak candidate, but since I'm seeing a lot of those kind, I might give it a try. This is one is older than Pokémon GO and probably as older (or more) than Ingress, so it's not from somebody trying a home/chouch wayspot.
Wayfarer says....
Please be sure to closely review nominations whose real-world location appears to be within 40 meters of private, single-family residential property, and nominations whose real-world location appears to be in a neighborhood park. To be clear, nominations should be rejected if their real-world location appears to be on private, single-family residential property or might encourage people to go onto private property (e.g., because the real-world location is at the end of a private driveway).
40m from the end of the nearest private driveway would be location distance per Wayfarer Help.
For US citizens and others who do not use metric. That is 132 feet roughly from your closest driveway.
The posts above this one are correct with one clarification. The guideline is distance from a private property, not just the driveway to the private property. The driveway was an example referenced in the guideline.
Please show where niantic gives a location besides the driveway for beginning the real world location and I will agree to it. Thanks. In the meantime, location is based on the end of the driveway as the example provide in Wayfarer help. (Please Note: if this location was incorrect, casey would of stated otherwise in the Shrines thread where Casey decided community entrances are allowed.)
Inside private property is a clear no. But withing those 40m does not mean auto deny it.
The way I read it, park are an exception but should be decide if it could affect local neighbors. Rest of PRP is based on the real world location ninatic deems as acceptable real world condition. Only thing written is the end of a private driveway is the real world location to them. It is even confirmed in the Wayfarer Video.
https://youtu.be/PPVXGrgzbbY
I really appreciate the respectful and thoughtful dialog on this thread, thanks for being collaborative everyone!
Chiming in here with my opinion, I do think that the first two (assuming that the decorations are paint therefore permanent) would be considered in line with the guidelines around utility boxes that have been decorated.
Even the pole with the squirrels on it could possibly be an eligible candidate as, although the items are mass produced, they're could be arranged in a manner where it could be considered an art installation.
The items in the last photo, however, are mass-produced and look more like decorations than art, I would say these are ineligible.
The abbreviation eg means for example. The end of a driveway is an example. That is the only example given, but it is just an example.
Can you chime in on if people need the artist and all of the back up. Or is just the art acceptable and reviewers only need to be worried about the art in the photo being art? This is a commonly heated discussion that comes from these topics.
Also can you define if this are in front of a PRP property, are they still valid.
To be clear, nominations should be rejected if their real-world location appears to be on private, single-family residential property or might encourage people to go onto private property (e.g., because the real-world location is at the end of a private driveway).
My previous example in this discussion shows a pole that is: on a sidewalk, outside any private property; and since it's outside, on a public sidewalk, it will not encourage people to go onto private property. The property has huge walls, no one could possible enter it by accident, and since the radius of action in all games are 40m, you don't even need to be close to ir to play.
Should it be denied just because it its abou 3m close to the fence/wall?
(if you didn't liked the eyes drawned, imagine a beatifull patented Picasso in the pole, that's just an example)
Wouldn't they follow the same 40m to PRP restriction that murals now have to follow.
They would have to follow guidance for art. Which murals fall under yes.
So unless the criteria for outdoor murals is weirdly different to that for indoor murals the poles should be rejected if within 40m of PRP, not just 'reviewed carefully'?
Please be sure to closely review nominations whose real-world location appears to be within 40 meters of private, single-family residential property, and nominations whose real-world location appears to be in a neighborhood park. To be clear, nominations should be rejected if their real-world location appears to be on private, single-family residential property or might encourage people to go onto private property (e.g., because the real-world location is at the end of a private driveway).
"Reject if it appears to be on private, single-family residential property or might encourage people to go onto private property." You may reject if a nomination is at the end of a private driveway as it might encourage people to trespass onto the private property.
I agree that was the guidance, but the newer guidance says "Not acceptable: Mounted or free-standing murals, paintings, fountains, sculptures, etc. on or within 40 meters of private residences." although strictly it comes under a section headed Indoor Nominations.
It's unclear whether murals that are within 40m of PRP should be outright rejected or merely closely reviewed. My guess is that the 'not acceptable' was supposed to be 'review closely' but I don't want to put words into Niantic's mouth.
If anything near 40m is invalid, that will cause the removal of almost every church in my city, since they're always right on the side of a private property. This criteria maybe makes sense in USA style of private property, with every prp having over 40m wide with no fence in the front, but here that same length can have up to 6-8 separated private property each one with 2m tall walls.
The reality is different, no one will be induced or accidentally trespass a wall with barbed wire. But in some places with a big unfenced lawn, people might just sit down or walk in the grass.
It would be important to mention this topic in a new update because many reviewers are still exempt from the art on lamp posts, and doing it in a more official way, this would help areas with few wayspots, finally having something
Living In a rural area of coastal Louisiana, with a unique system of how property has been developed over time, my community of 4 towns that run from one into another along Bayou Lafourche, we have commercial property adjacent to private property; frequently personal have their business on the same plot of land as their home. There are not many locations that could be picked following the 40 meter rule. It makes me wonder how cities can have so many ingress portals/Poké Stops. There are private residences located the same as rural areas, but since there are “sidewalks”, things that are rejected here for being too close to private residence because we used the large paved shoulders of the Hwys as sidewalks. I have seen “art” installations being approved on the neutral ground of streets - the grassy area between the different direction of traffic, in Towns and Cities being accepted, and the only way to access them is from your car while waiting at a red light, because there is no pedestrian access to those neutral grounds. It is unfair that people in urban areas can set up a portal so close to their residence, they have their own sofa portal, sometimes more than one! This is not something people in rural areas or remote areas are privy to, and that is not cool. But, we do the best we can.
One distinction that is made about private property is that its ONLY single family residences that are included. Multi family apartment buildings aren't considered PRP. So in the actual downtown area of a city, there are very few single family homes, they are mostly apartments buildings.
Mi opinión es esas reglas fueron hechas en un inicio pensando en enormes casas , con enormes jardines (con esculturas o fuentes en su interior), cuyo camino entrada supera los 40 m. Creo yo que las propuestas del poste cumplen perfectamente en el sentido de que no se inicita a la invasión de la propiedad privada, pues están a pie de calle.