Allotments - Yay or Nay?
NorthSeaPoet-ING
Posts: 895 ✭✭✭✭✭
Basically, I'm wondering what the criteria is surrounding allotments as the UK wayfarer community seem quite divided on the matter.
Personally, I sway towards to allowing them due to them encouraging exercise, and having community value/a sense of community. I do understand why others might not look upon them so favourably though.
For those that don't know what an allotment is, I'm going to quote/paraphrase Wikipedia on the matter:
An allotment garden, often called simply an allotment, is a plot of land made available for individual, non-commercial gardening or growing food plants. Such plots are formed by subdividing a piece of land into a few or up to several hundred land parcels that are assigned to individuals or families. Such parcels are cultivated individually, contrary to other community garden types where the entire area is tended collectively by a group of people. In countries that do not use the term "allotment (garden)", a "community garden" may refer to individual small garden plots as well as to a single, large piece of land gardened collectively by a group of people. The term "victory garden" is also still sometimes used, especially when a community garden dates back to the First or Second World War.
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niktero-PGO
Posts: 348 ✭✭✭✭
From the description of what an allotment garden is this sounds identical to most of the community gardens here in Montana. People can rent a plot of land in the area for a different fee depending on size, and which garden it is in. They are responsible for coming and watering and weeding their area. All the city is providing is the garden boxes, a fence for deer (depending on the area) and the water spigots with hoses. These allotment gardens sound just as acceptable as what we call community gardens.
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NianticCasey-ING
Posts: 538 admin
Back to @NicoSolheim-ING's original question regarding allotments in the UK.
Community gardens and the local equivalent are fine; however we recommend submitting a signboard for it if possible. If there is no sign, it would be helpful to include some proof or explanation in the supporting statement that this is a community garden and not someone’s private garden/farm.
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Great question, have definitely seen many discussions over the years on this topic.
It's worth pointing out that in some areas of the UK, many live in high rise apartments, terraced houses, or sheltered housing with little to no garden. In these areas, I would say allotments hold more cultural significance than others, as it's the only place they may be able to plant things. Many allotments hold open days and events for the wider community too.
Some allotments are more private, perhaps council owned, lacking unique signage and not holding open days.
So for me it depends on the allotments and I take each review as it comes, so a good description that convinces me of the community aspect of it goes a long way.
They are similar to community gardens which are generally considered “acceptable”. They encourage community gathering and healthy lifestyles.
Niantic has not directly stated they are to be approved or rejected in any guidelines or AMA. Personally I believe them to be a great candidate as there are not too many. I would suggest if there is a sign to submit the sign.
I have had luck personally submitting a community garden in my area.
Can you post an example of the allotment gardens?
In Australia, "Community gardens" are quite common, however these are gardens owned and operated by community groups and/or the local council sometimes. They almost always have a sign stating the name of the garden, which is what is usually submitted.
Sometimes they don't have a sign, and that's where it can get a bit murkier to judge, especially in locations without a good street view or photosphere, they can often look like gardens in somebody's backyard.
So, if it has a sign and is operated by a community organisation (not just an individual, on that individual's land), then it should be eligible as promotes community cooperation and gives back to the community. If there is no sign, it's a bit harder to judge as you are really only just rating some plantation boxes and plants, which isn't really unique enough on its own to be acceptable, but the context here is what is important and if it is part of a community organisation, then it may as well be accepted in the same vain.
Actually there is a few different types of garden areas allowed.
One I am not sure on is Medical Office Building Gardens. If they are a sub location for the main hospital should they be considered the same as a hospital?
For once I'm actually with you on this one. There's precedent in other similar type gardens that in my opinion lends weight to rating these allotments highly. I would be careful quoting guidance from the old OPR action guide, though, since I don't think newer reviewers have access to that anymore? Or has it been preserved somewhere for posterity?
Nianticcasey has confirmed it still exists and is valid to reference already.
There is already a thread about.
https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/comment/1039#Comment_1039
I would approve these based on the guidelines. I've gotten several approved locally. If there is a sign, it helps immensely.
I like them as candidates - without a sign they could be a tricky to identify, but with a sign I rate them highly. Exercise and community social interaction.
Casey is still checking into Garden Sculptures like of Mickey Mouse of grass. Or a deer of vegetation. Sculpted by gardeners. I haven't heard back on this type of garden yet.
This is what I've just quickly grabbed from Google. Obviously without a sign, I wouldn't approve them.
I, myself, have only subbed two Allotments - one got through, the second was rejected because it's a nightmare to find on streetview
Thanks for the examples. Like I said earlier, if it has a sign saying 'community allotment garden' or something similar, definitely. My only question is, from those examples, how would a person objectively know that those gardens are for community purposes versus simply being a garden on private residential property or a farm?
aside from the main photo, the supporting photo and statement can help give information and evidence to show it's for a community instead of a private garden. Supporting photo in conjunction with google maps can help make it easier to identify it's real world location to see it's not on private property, and you can give the name of the organization that upkeeps the garden in the description or supporting statement so reviewers have an easier time verifying it's community run.
What I'm looking for is a link to a copy of the actual text itself. Valid or not, it's not convenient to rely on guidance that nobody can see.
We are here to help niantic decide. Niantic has the guidance. For them to make a decision easier by suggesting it was in the Candidate action guide that is helpful to them.
We're not here to help influence Niantic's decision. This page is for agents to help each other understand the criteria and Niantic to step in when there's grey areas.
Have you been arguing and driving every thread into the ground because you think you'll have influence over Niantic? You won't.
From the description of what an allotment garden is this sounds identical to most of the community gardens here in Montana. People can rent a plot of land in the area for a different fee depending on size, and which garden it is in. They are responsible for coming and watering and weeding their area. All the city is providing is the garden boxes, a fence for deer (depending on the area) and the water spigots with hoses. These allotment gardens sound just as acceptable as what we call community gardens.
Thank you - I know Wikipedia says that in places where they're not called "allotments", they're known as community gardens but wasn't sure if they would meet the same criteria.
can you show me this?
i can't find anything in the ama, wayfarer guides nor the old opr guides
can you provide me a link for this statement?
I believe this is the post that @Gabriel0322-PGO was referencing.
https://community.ingress.com/en/discussion/comment/59956/#Comment_59956
Here is a PDF version of the Candidate Action guide courtesy of @GearGlider-ING
https://imgur.com/a/pznLO7T
checked the pdf. it's basically the old opr guides... but there is as far as i see no mention of allotments/community gardens being valid.
the only recent mention of gardens being ok by niantic is:
With regard to hospitals:
Eligible: gardens (including healing gardens) if they are a unique feature that would facilitate gathering and that is not in a restricted area.
Ineligible: the front door to the hospital / main lobby / waiting room / etc. if it would interfere with operation of emergency services, especially emergency service vehicles.
I don't believe there is any direct confirmation from Niantic regarding their eligibility.
This is incorrect. The purpose of this forum is not to influence the guidelines but to seek clarification around confusing nominations or to request additional guidance around new or previously unconsidered criteria.
Keep in mind that exerting influence over Wayfarer decisions is considered abuse and could result in the termination of your Wayfarer account.
How is sharing niantic content that is spread out among the candidate action guide, wayfarer help, ingress amas for months and years of questions, twitter, facebook, ingress forum, reddit, ground for getting banned from the forum? The forums can be used for creating a better detailed guides on specific topics of how they people should accept or reject all of certain things. Sharing all of the information associated with that topic shouldn't be grounds of being banned. Because not all players are aware of it. Can you explain more?
Back to @NicoSolheim-ING's original question regarding allotments in the UK.
Community gardens and the local equivalent are fine; however we recommend submitting a signboard for it if possible. If there is no sign, it would be helpful to include some proof or explanation in the supporting statement that this is a community garden and not someone’s private garden/farm.
Thank you, @NianticCasey-ING