Digital Community Information Signs
JSteve0-ING
Posts: 516 ✭✭✭✭
In a discussion about community noticeboards on this forum, another wayfarer reviewer posted a question about objects that I feel are significantly different in form and function from the item that the original poster was seeking guidance on. This point was made after answers were provided by Niantic and answers from other participants were accepted by the original poster. This post was made so that the question would not be lost by being buried several comments deep in a somewhat related conversation.
The object in question is what I would call a digital community information sign. A few of these have come through my queue and while I don't reject them, I was wondering if they should be considered high quality nominations. I am adding links to some pictures I found from the internet that are examples of what I am asking about. They are not pictures that I am submitting as main pictures in a nomination.
Here are some pros that make them good nominations:
- They are visually distinct
- They provide community information
Here are some cons that make them less than good nominations
- They are designed to provide information to motorists and thus having a large group of people gathered there would obscure information for the intended audience
- They are sometimes nothing more the digital billboards and provide little community value.
In my opinion, the first, second and fourth are pretty good. The third appears to be an advertising platform for a business and because of its main function, it is not a very good candidate.
Are Digital Community Information Signs good candidates?
Best Answers
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Gendgi-PGO
Posts: 3,423 Ambassador
Great discussion starter.
They are sometimes nothing more the digital billboards and provide little community value.
To elaborate that point, many are mainly used as an advertisement for the business.
While I would welcome ones that feature events, maybe weather and time, and general notices, I'm inclined to reject many based on just the business.
I would also like to add clarification that a community notice board adds value to the community by providing a location for everyone to share. A digital information sign is typically 1-way: being shared by the business and not allowing the general public to make posts.
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Gazzas89-PGO
Posts: 2,524 ✭✭✭✭✭
I would say, if these kind if signs show community events, weather, time, that kind of stuff and could be proven to show hat the majority if the time, then it would be good. But if it's just essentially a digital advertisement sign, I would reject it
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NianticCasey-ING
Posts: 538 admin
Hey folks,
This is a great discussion starter and there have been some great points made by @Gendgi, @AgentB0ss-ING, @TheFarix-PGO and @gazzas89-PGO already made in this thread.
Looking back at the original post, it would say that the first two are good examples of something that I would consider eligible (provided they had safe pedestrian access): they're unique, independent, sources of local information and easily identifiable by folks in the community.
I think back to my hometown where we had a board like this as you entered the town. Local events, weather, time, etc. was displayed, however there were no advertisements for businesses, which is where they would cross into ineligibility. The third image in the OP would be ineligible as (based on what I see) it would only display information related to that specific business not for the community.
Churches and other, more focused institutions with boards like this would need to be considered on a one-off basis. If they only promoted their own events, probably ineligible for the same reason as the car dealership example provided; but if they also showcased important local news or events as well as promoting interest in their own events, then yes.
Answers
Great discussion starter.
They are sometimes nothing more the digital billboards and provide little community value.
To elaborate that point, many are mainly used as an advertisement for the business.
While I would welcome ones that feature events, maybe weather and time, and general notices, I'm inclined to reject many based on just the business.
I would also like to add clarification that a community notice board adds value to the community by providing a location for everyone to share. A digital information sign is typically 1-way: being shared by the business and not allowing the general public to make posts.
I think the appeal of Noticeboards as community gathering locations is more so "For the community by the community" which what I am saying is anyone is allowed to use and post information on a community noticeboard. They can walk up and pin a advertisement, a service, a community event, a missing animal poster, etc.
A digitial board line those are above are more singular in focus updated by a Church, a city, or an event hall. Only listing specific details they want listed.
Thats not to say these types of boards are not eligible a Digital church sign would be the same as a church sign and be eligible if the church us already not a waypoint or if significant distance from the church.
This post, x1,000.
Notice boards are by the community, for the community, and are communication hotspots that anyone can post a flyer or find local information. A used car lot with a digital notice board, unless it maybe displays interesting quips or is otherwise artistic, is ineligible. Most others could be eligible based on the information shared, but they are NOT the same as a community notice board.
Please don't derail this conversation. We are not discussing cell phones or their eligibility. Make a new thread if you wish to talk to yourself in there about it. Thanks.
Logical fallacies galore. Not sure if this is a Red Herring or you are saying because a then must be c.
So because we don't think digital signs are notice boards we shouldnt use cell phones? LOGIC
Please stay on topic.
This thread is not about Apiary or Seafood Restaurants. Its solely about Digital Signage.
Ok, here's another example where you're providing misinformation for newcomers. Focusing only on the last sentence "Guidance seafood restaurants accept if in a travel guide like TripAdvisor."
This is really what Niantic has posted: "Acceptable: Eateries that have been featured prominently in travel guides, those with historical or cultural significance, or establishments that are popular tourist destinations. Establishments that serve alcoholic beverages like bars and pubs are acceptable. " (from https://niantic.helpshift.com/a/wayfarer/?p=web&s=wayspot-acceptance-criteria&f=niantic-wayfarer-clarifications-january-2020&l=en )
So
The important part is of course (1), it's not enough that the eatery is included in a travel guide, it must be featured prominently and as long as you omit that part you're spreading misinformation.
Agreed.
Whereas digital noticeboards could be eligible, they're not exactly something that just anyone from the community could update with information.
In saying that, I can't imagine they would replace every wooden or cork noticeboard, especially in villages where it might not be as viable to have a digital noticeboard due to a vastly lower population compared to a bigger location such as a city.
I would say, if these kind if signs show community events, weather, time, that kind of stuff and could be proven to show hat the majority if the time, then it would be good. But if it's just essentially a digital advertisement sign, I would reject it
Hey folks,
This is a great discussion starter and there have been some great points made by @Gendgi, @AgentB0ss-ING, @TheFarix-PGO and @gazzas89-PGO already made in this thread.
Looking back at the original post, it would say that the first two are good examples of something that I would consider eligible (provided they had safe pedestrian access): they're unique, independent, sources of local information and easily identifiable by folks in the community.
I think back to my hometown where we had a board like this as you entered the town. Local events, weather, time, etc. was displayed, however there were no advertisements for businesses, which is where they would cross into ineligibility. The third image in the OP would be ineligible as (based on what I see) it would only display information related to that specific business not for the community.
Churches and other, more focused institutions with boards like this would need to be considered on a one-off basis. If they only promoted their own events, probably ineligible for the same reason as the car dealership example provided; but if they also showcased important local news or events as well as promoting interest in their own events, then yes.
Would a community center or municipal center using a large television or monitor to display community events akin to the first two photos in the OP's example also qualify as eligible? If it was made very explicit/clear by the display around it that this is what the monitor's use was for?
@NianticCasey-ING There has been a debate on one of the clarifications on the Wayfarer Help. It has come up a lot in this and similar discussions about signs versus the actual point of interest.
Signs for locations/objects that are already existing Wayspots - Eligible, if they are a significant distance from the object or location. For example, a sign for a monument could be a separate Wayspot than the monument itself. If a sign for Wayspot is nearby the Wayspot itself, it can be used as a supplementary photo for the existing Wayspot.
Above is the current guideline, while I feel like I personally understand this fine. There has been a clear confusion on "significant" distance between the Point of Interest and the sign for the sign to be eligible. Some are under the belief that the system would decide the distance if eligible. Is there any more guidance that can be provided on "significant" distance?
Personally, I don't like reviewing with distance criteria, but subjective distance criteria is worse. If 40 meters is decided as the eligible distance minimum, is that from the candidate? From the candidate POI (if one exists)? From the end of the driveway leading up to the candidate? And Google tools often are inadequate to really gauge distance.
I feel like most of the time, this discussion is for signs for churches. The confusion around this ends up having what could easily be considered false acceptances, rejections, or duplicates, depending on your viewpoint, and only slows down the process more and leads to loss of agreements. Similarly, church signs are less likely to have safe pedestrian access, so some reviewers move the sign to the building itself, which I feel is wrong, but the intent is to "save them" and give them a candidate rather than reject.
Please, please, make a note that any additional criteria on this makes its way to the Wayfarer Help page so everyone can be seeing it.
Thanks!
I'm just pointing out part of the way that you distort the provided information, you take one specific point and then try to extrapolate so everything is valid in order to meet your goals
"Seafood restaurants are the featured prominently in my city. Because the state is known for fishing."
Ok, so seafood restaurants are important in your city. But are all of them featured in travel guides?
No, all of them can't be featured prominently because if all of them are featured prominently that means that all of them have the same relevance and so none of them are highlights in your community.
So it comes down to this: There are some restaurants that might be eligible because they stand out over the rest, but being a seafood restaurant in your city is not enough because there are looots of seafood restaurants.
"Analogies can be used to help people realize criteria they may ignore. With a new forum sharing content is allowed anywhere that helps someone remember it."
You can use analogies, but you can't distort the message and the goals of Niantic to fit your goals. This is Niantic's database with their rules, not mine, not yours.
"(You assume eateries are important to me. Bars and pubs don't have to be featured prominently. I am focused on them.)"
Ok, you're again twisting the rules written by Niantic.
Here's the whole section:
Pubs and Restaurants that serve alcohol (including mall food courts)
Acceptable: Eateries that have been featured prominently in travel guides, those with historical or cultural significance, or establishments that are popular tourist destinations. Establishments that serve alcoholic beverages like bars and pubs are acceptable.
Not acceptable: Generic businesses with no distinguishing feature or significance or those that offer adult services (e.g. liquor stores, adult entertainment, **** ranges, firearm stores that also offer food or snacks).
It doesn't say at any time that all the bars and pubs should be approved. I guess that you're trying to focus on this part "Establishments that serve alcoholic beverages like bars and pubs are acceptable. ", but that's a clarification to specify that the fact that an establishment serves alcoholic beverages is not an automatic rejection as some people thought in the past. It just states that they can be eligible as long as they meet the rest of the criteria.
@NianticCasey-ING Could you or any of your colleagues please clarify and settle this point?
Are all bars and pubs automatically valid wayspots or do they still have to meet the rest of the criteria for Pubs and restaurants? Thank you very much.
With those rules, it would mean all Information Boards where flyers are put for local events would be eligible as well (currently being rejected by the community in our regions).
This would also mean that kiosks where posters of local events are pasted on would be eligible, which are also being rejected here due to being mass-produced (there is maybe 1 per town).
@NianticCasey-ING response about poles said mass produced items could be arranged into something artistic and that arrangement could be eligible. It did not say that mass produced items are eligible.
Also, I would like to request that this discussion be closed. My question has been answered, thanks.