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Sorry for the absence in my own post, lol.
I would really love for this to be read and considered by Niantic - how do I go about this? (Still quite new in the forum, not 100% sure how things work in here... 😄)
Oh, and from today's Greatest Misses of Wayfarer: A private garden with flagpole in Sweden, a sign for "three small businesses", a basketball court with the mention of Pokémon GO raids in the description and "Nature - with a lot of small animals".
I don't know how much more of this I can take. 😭 (Just kidding, just kidding - I love Wayfarer, but pleaaaase do something about these junk nominations, Niantic! 🙏😂)
I also agree that there should be requirements for submitting. Nobody should be able to pick up the app on day 1 and start spamming Wayspots.
I am thinking something like this:
Pokemon Go: Gain 12,000,000 total XP
Ingress: Gain 4,000,000 AP and have some medal requirements. I am thinking something like: 2 gold medals, 5 silver medals.
Lol pogo you have to be lvl 38 which i think is around 12-13mil xp. Which is not hard to get what so ever
It seems quite clear by now that level requirements are not the way. IMO, nominating should be because you really want to and have good canidates for Wayspots - and are willing to put in the time and energy, not just farm medals etc. I even think the current in-game medal in PoGo is a huge mistake. As some mentioned earlier, Wayfarer should be 100% voluntary, anything else kinda goes against the whole idea of it, I would think?
Again, as a minimum I'd suggest a test to show people what it is really about in here (AKA it's not about getting a pokestop at your house, by your favourite teddy bear etc...). You would have to earn the privilege to nominate. Lord knows we need that in Wayfarer now...
I'm not sure if it is 'proper etiquette' to just tag someone from Niantic/Wayfarer, but I really wish for some feedback from you guys (Niantic/Wayfarer staff). 😊
I think I have been rejecting more than I have accepted for a long time now. I am far from the only one. But I/we do the grind, try and earn our upgrades and continue to contribute to the games. But the load of junk nominations has become too heavy, and it also affects good nominations that are just stuck in queue limbo.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on this situation. Thanks in advance. 👍️
I think the requirements are fine. Put too high requirement could have negative side effect (less nominations and less reviewver)
But Niantic should allow acces to wayfarer to people who have really good reason to submit something even if they don't have in game requirement.
Someone who live in a place without any POI will certainly have many places to submit, so this person will certainly submit better nominations.
Someone who live in a city with many pokéstop/portal won't be able to submit many good nomination.
How about a badge system where going through a basic training rewards a gold or silver badge. Successful submissions increase the badge points, and a certain number of points gets you to higher badge levels. Rejected submissions will count as points against the badge, eventually decreasing its level. This would be an incentivized reason to participate in the forums, in wayfarer, and internalizing the criteria for a good nomination. It should encourage game players to pay attention to their communities and find those missing gold nuggets. It will also require Niantic to make some of the unnecessarily vague criteria and reasoning more transparent so that participation will be easier.
It would also be easier to promote if the point requirements for increasing badge level were a little easier than the number of negative points to regress a level. Such would help prevent discouragement for early learners.
Badge level could also be tied to number of eligible submissions in a week. Which may help weed out fake accounts. Repeated, ill acting offenders could be completely demoted to the lowest level and require a significant improvement to be allowed to submit more than a few a week at best.
System like this would be great, but in this model abusers would make normal wayfarer's rating low and other abuser's high so I think it needs some anti-abuser functions.
That's an excellent point. Kind of brings us back to where we already are. It seems it would be much easier to deal with individual abusers than previously mentioned situations where there are collaborative abusers. If a limited submission number based on behavior system were to work, it should help minimize the backlogs. With fewer garbage nominations you could potentially use the same system for reviewers, limiting the number of available reviews based on behavior points, but it probably wouldn't tackle a problem with many collaborating abusive participants. Maybe it would also help make those areas stick out. It's hard to figure out how to enact a reparative system in those areas that wouldn't also affect the players who aren't malicious. Maybe a certain number of the reviews for any portal need to be done from outside each local region to help look for higher than normal inconsistencies.
I think I fail to see how less nominations would be a negative effect? Considering the overwhelming amount of redundant, junk and spam nominations, maybe also for Wayfarer, less really is more? 😄 I for one would LOVE to see lower quantity, more quality.
Regarding who submits what, I have to say this 100%: Rural players do NOT necessarily submit better nominations, just because there are not many Wayspots. They may have good candidates for new Wayspots all over the place, but if they choose to submit the ineligible dull convenience store instead of the criteria-meeting, great looking info sign right in front of the store, well... (had that one for review yesterday, felt like such a waste!)
This is actually quite great! I still see a problem though, with those players who just spam all kinds of c... out there, because they unlocked the submitting feature and want to see what it's about (I have had to review more of those than I want to think about, and it is actually often what they put in description or supp. info! 😅)
Still, definitely an interesting input.
Thanks. I'm really hoping to start a conversation where people smarter than me can contribute to a system that will just improve things a little. There will always be people that game the system, cheat, or just make mistakes that cause heartache for the rest of us, but I think there is room for some improvements that can change things just enough to ease a lot of the burden on the community and the unfortunate Niantic employees who are stuck in the middle. The less triage Niantic has to do hopefully it means those resources are freed up to make game improvements.
I don't disagree, I think that is probably a problem in most places. I believe that number of submissions someone has in a period of time can be related to the status of their overall submission performance. I don't believe it's quite that simple, but something that makes nominating quality waypoints more valuable will hopefully, in at least some cases, increase the interest in learning what makes a good submission. It won't end abuse of the system, but it may help increase overall quality and maybe decrease the firehose of terrible submissions. Hopefully with even a small increase in nomination quality people wouldn't burn out on reviewing as fast either.
Of course there is the complication of making sure a system implemented feels reward based and not punishment based.
Plenty of village have no POI. Someone who wants to play a Niantic's game in those area can't enjoy the game and they stop. And that's bad for the game.
I can speak for me: i took me more than 5 years to finally enjoy Pokémon Go. The reason? In my village there was no pokéstop and i have to take my car and go to the city 10km away to find a pokéstop. I stop the game many times before reaching the level requierement to be able to submit POI in Wayfarer. And the only thing that's allow me to enjoy the game is the fact Niantic lowered the level requirement in november.
This kind of situation is frequent. But many people don't do like me and simply stop definitivly.
If there were more submission, maybe there will be less village with no POI (and no possibility to play). Now i know that after i suggest all the potential POI in my village, i will go in the other village of my region to suggest more POI and give the possibility to new player to enjoy the game. But with only 7 submission per 15 days, it would take years to manage to do that. (Only in my village on a range of 5km , i have a list of about 150 potential POI.)
For the question of quality, it's depends on the person who submit nominations. But from what i have see, some people just don't follw the rules when they review or/and when they submit, ant that's the main problem: some good POI are reject and some bad POI are suggested)
I don't believe an idea such as this would negatively affect situations like yours, but it is definitely something that would need to be strongly considered. I would want you to enjoy playing as much as anyone else. Do you have the option of asking players in nearby areas to come and help nominate in your area just as you plan to help the villages around you? Most of the reviewing is done by people in your area, so hopefully they will understand the value of your local nominations and help build the waypoints. The "Nomination Improvement" category of this forum is also a great place to help submit good waypoints.
XP/AP is not an indicator of the expected quality of nominations that people can do. While we can only hope that perhaps maybe visiting more unique Pokestops/portals or having walked many kilometres/miles can be an indicator, most people are probably just going to just show their desperation in having a home pokestop or mention Pokemon in their title/description.
What irks me the most (which I have repeated again and again) is that someone who has had hundreds of wayspots approved and probably over 10,000 recon/wayfarer agreements has the same level of importance/impact as someone who has 100 agreements and only reviews to upgrade their trash can or their cat. The only thing that could possibly set them apart are their reviewing status, but it is not rocket science to get to Great and stay there.
The ability to nominate should not be based on XP/AP. It should be scaled. Start with less, and eventually end up with more nominations as you review in agreement and have wayspots approved. Why should someone who gets to Level 10 in Ingress get 14 super quickly, but someone in Pokemon Go who gets to Level 38 only get 7?
Yes, I agree with you, go back up further and read my initial proposal. Game points would only set the level when someone first gains eligibility to submit and review, but after that the availability and incentives would be driven exclusively by nomination and review performance.
Players in nearby area have as much as me do to because there were nothing.
we have a Messenger group, we discuss of that. The fact is in my region, only two town had poi at the launch of pogo. Many players here had to do like me and now every 38+ player try to submit POI, so we can’t help each other because there are a huge lack ok POI everywhere here outside the two town .
I think we're leaving the subject of what to do about junk nominations now? I also don't quite follow your problem with too much/little to do regarding nominating new Wayspots (you also mentioned having thousands of things to nominate, so how small a village is it really? lol), but that might be a language barrier. 😊 Fact is, the games are "reality-based", so naturally urban players will have more 'action' than rural players, when it comes to number of Wayspots. It is certainly a worthy discussion, but maybe not here, in this post. Hope you understand.
It seems logical that cities should have a higher density of POI than rural areas, but I feel rural nominations are judged much more harshly. An urban reviewer can nominate a Bed & Breakfast on their residential block and it will sail right through. A rural Wayfarer must travel much further to nominate a scenic cottage colony with an office a parking lot an ice machine and a big sign, only for it to be rejected as a sensitive private gravesite, PRP or farmland with unsafe pedestrian access.
This is the assumption Niantic is already working from based on how they structure their review queues. They prioritize submissions in low density areas while bottle-necking those in high density areas. But this assumption is 100% not true. I live in a high density area that is constantly changing. We have new construction, new parks, new art, new local hot spots going up all the time. We also have pockets that have just been ignored for one reason or another where we find 3 - 4 good POI candidates to submit. It is incredibly frustrating to know that several of us informed, responsible submitters in my area have 20+ submissions stuck in queue for MONTHS because of this bad assumption.
I would agree with this if my entire reviewing history had not just been stripped away because their own janky system doesn't know what to do when you want to use a different email address in one game than in another and let a family member use the old email address. My 5x platinum WF medal in PGO jumped from my account (the person who did all the work) to my family member's PGO account when they lazily hit level 38. And there's not a dang thing I can do about it because Niantic isn't interested in fixing it.
I decided at one point to deactivate my Facebook account. This resulted in me losing far more than 4000 reviews and the medal was gone too. Niantic did nothing. I reactivated my Facebook because of this, even though I didn't wish to have the account open anymore, but I wasn't given my hard earned agreements etc back. And yes, it is hard work. Look at all the **** nominations - oh hi, back at the original subject of PLEASE DO SOMETHING ABOUT JUNK NOMINATIONS, NIANTIC.
Sorry. Just... Sometimes I wonder why we bother.
I'm gonna go ahead and tag someone now. It's not like you guys haven't had time to look at this, @NianticAaron & co. (You were the first one on the list, so yeah 😅)
Please could you - or anyone of your colleagues - share with us your thoughts on how to better deal with all the junk nominations in Wayfarer? Many of us are rejecting way more than we are accepting now, unfortunately. Should not be like this... Thanks in advance.
I think unfortunately they’ve opened the floodgates now. If a Pokémon GO submitter keeps submitting their front door, at the moment there’s no punishment. I’ve had this particular nomination at least twice and it’s awful. Nothing changed in resubmission, the submitter has not been deterred or reprimanded for submitting coal
Can Ingress players not submit front doors?
Please don't make this about PoGo vs Ingress. :)
That’s fair, but I think most would agree it’s become more prevalent since Pokémon GO folks have been able to submit.
I wouldn't know. I started from PoGo. I would never submit such garbage though. So... And if we really have to go there, I've seen horrible submissions from Ingress players as well, mentioning portals and enemies in-game and other stupid stuff. And don't even get me started on how many mismatched come from Ingress submitters.
It's not about the individual games, it's about the tools we are (not) given.
Btw, I submit from both PoGo as well as Ingress now. I don't submit worse nominations from PoGo.
But I'm actually quite curious now: How would you say junk nominations were prevented in Ingress, before PoGo players were eligible to submit? Because I honestly don't think it's fair to blame all this on PoGo players.
The guidelines are not 'forced' onto people when they reach lvl 38. Maybe they should be. That's what I'm thinking anyway.
Just hundred of potential POI, not thousand.
Many religous sign, foutain, trail markers, sign about nature, ruins of the world war, and the natural parc provides many potential POI.
On the subject of junk nomination, it's very difficult to prevent them. But maybe it would be possible to reduce the number of nomination in queue and the possibility to submit bad nomination but i don't see how.
Level 38 is a lot easier to achieve than level 10 in ingress prime