Should the likes be set to zero once worldwide for the sake of fairness?

Brukterra-PGOBrukterra-PGO Posts: 572 ✭✭✭✭

I would like to use this thread to discuss the following topic with Niantic and the community.

@NianticCasey-ING I would very much appreciate a statement from you!

Many Pokémon Go players use an ingress account to give photos a "Like" to determine which wayspot the next Gym will be, which I think is up to everyone.

What worries me, however, is that in many places normal or sometimes totally bad photos have an absurd number of likes (Sometimes much more than there are actually active ingress agents on site) - and new photos simply have no chance. Because even if they are accepted, the old and previous photos still meet the criteria. And mostly only because an Gym in Pokémon Go was supposed to be / was created there.

Now the feature for Pokémon Go players is currently being tested in New Zealand, where likes can be given to Pokémon Go - regardless of Ingress. In this way, the better picture can be used as the cover picture in each game, I think that's great!

But something worries me very much ... I suspect that Niantic will unlock this feature worldwide at a certain point, but the likes that were set in Ingress to create gyms will remain like garbage or as leftovers.

To be honest, I would appreciate it if Niantic completely resets all likes worldwide once this feature has been activated. That would only be fair.

But it's not just about the likes set by Pokémon Go players, but also about the fact that many likes were certainly set by old accounts that have not been active for years. In my opinion, the photos or the likes do not largely reflect the current state of the real world. In my opinion, the players should have the opportunity to get a fresh start, at least with regard to this topic.

Just to give you an example: In my small town there are currently 3 RES players and 3 ENL players, but we sometimes have wayspots with more than 40 likes. Every new photo has no chance.

Should the likes be set to zero once worldwide for the sake of fairness? 75 votes

Yes, absolutely!
48%
noregardd-INGBlaumut-INGvidicon-INGmortuus-INGoscarc1-INGDerWelfe2205-PGOasdfjkll-INGBionisShulk-INGOchemist-ING1valdis-INGKalaless-INGWasser68-INGEpicyoadee-PGOGermiyoshi-INGSiinnie-INGShooters42-INGBrukterra-PGOBubySupremeXD-INGSPD85-PGOtoniukupaoni10-PGO 36 votes
No, definitely not
37%
InvestigateXM-INGPerringaiden-INGAtunatunak-INGAzhreia-INGThescruffyhead-PGOGearGlider-PGOMinusFive-INGMoogModular-INGRaachermannl-INGgrendelwulf-INGmontitcha-INGaenariel-INGPistiHufnagel-INGSeabound-INGsaarstahl-INGEdocsil47-PGOKhatre-INGAisforAndis-INGShilfiell-INGKellerrys-ING 28 votes
The photo quality doesn't matter to me.
6%
Mormegil71-INGMilesMitsurugi-PGOLechu1730-PGOObstImHausRAAAW-PGOlongshanks83-ING 5 votes
I have another idea - and will explain it in detail in a comment.
8%
JamieofArds-INGHaramDingo-INGbilde2910Hosette-INGBigRaptor-INGPennry-PGO 6 votes
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Comments

  • BigRaptor-INGBigRaptor-ING Posts: 11 ✭✭
    I have another idea - and will explain it in detail in a comment.

    Photo likes are not related to gym promotions, it has been discussed before in the forums. This is a widely held misconception in the PoGo communities.

  • Gendgi-PGOGendgi-PGO Posts: 1,379 ✭✭✭✭✭

    So... You're sharing a post from a moderator who closed a previous discussion down for not being Wayfarer related.

    Try bringing this up in the Ingress community, see what the Agents think of it.

  • MoogModular-INGMoogModular-ING Posts: 19 ✭✭
    No, definitely not

    Photos of waypoints should rotate after some amount of time and once they have a certain threshold of likes. This would prevent vote spamming as we're trying to showcase good photos of places regardless of who uploaded it.

  • Perringaiden-INGPerringaiden-ING Posts: 114 ✭✭✭
    No, definitely not

    Removing these likes would restart the old long settled battles like trying to make an Agent's work portal a close up picture of the statue's buttocks instead of a full size view of the statue from the front.

    We worked very hard to make sure these portals images weren't damaged by trolls.

  • BionisShulk-INGBionisShulk-ING Posts: 6 ✭✭
  • LukeAllStars-PGOLukeAllStars-PGO Posts: 3,289 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes, absolutely!

    Also, it's pretty sad to see fights between fractions and also players who keep on upvote old pictures with bad quality because they want to keep old pictures. Pretty sad

  • mortuus-INGmortuus-ING Posts: 42 ✭✭
    Yes, absolutely!

    I think so too reset.. too much abused upvoting certain pics by both factions ufff....

  • sogNinjaman-INGsogNinjaman-ING Posts: 1,515 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Who actually looks at the photos of the Portal or Pokestop? No one I know has ever held up their phone in mid-game and said "Boy, thats a bad photo of this portal, I should get it changed".

    The number of "likes" a photo gets no longer has any influence on whether the most voted up Stop becomes the nest Gym. Niantic closed off this option when they made changes to the PoGo waypoint spacing rules as part of their crackdown on edit abuse. Coming up with lots of "reasons" about why you want to "change the photo" to cover the real reson for this request is pointless, PoGO no longer works inthis way.

  • DerWelfe2205-PGODerWelfe2205-PGO Posts: 307 ✭✭✭✭
    Yes, absolutely!

    If trolls are a problem then Niantic should let the wayfarer community decide and not the local community.

  • MoogModular-INGMoogModular-ING Posts: 19 ✭✭
    No, definitely not

    You have to note that redacted loved 16:9 (4:3) ratio photos. This isn't the case with the current Unity games.

  • Brukterra-PGOBrukterra-PGO Posts: 572 ✭✭✭✭
    Yes, absolutely!

    I don't think the idea is that bad. Sounds very promising. But only fixes the problem of the likes set by Pokémon Go players. The age-old likes of players who are no longer active still remain, as do the likes on portals where a competition for likes has taken place due to the different fractions. I don't think it's a bad idea, but it only solves a fraction of the problem.

    Basically, I think it's bad that likes influence the creation of Gyms. Likes should only reflect the photo quality.

  • MoogModular-INGMoogModular-ING Posts: 19 ✭✭
    No, definitely not

    The likes on the NL 1331 van already got wiped previously because Ethan accidentally deleted the portal.

  • Brukterra-PGOBrukterra-PGO Posts: 572 ✭✭✭✭
    Yes, absolutely!

    It's not your fault. But you can set new likes. Clearly the fault lies with Niantic, but simply accepting it is the wrong way to go. But as I said, this is not just about Pokémon Go Likes, but also old Likes from inactive accounts. Another example are the photo formats that resulted from the switch from Redacted to Prime.

  • Hosette-INGHosette-ING Posts: 797 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have another idea - and will explain it in detail in a comment.

    @MoogModular-ING Oh, sad about the van! I haven't looked at it in ages, and I'm not even sure I still have a key. My broader point stands, though... there are a lot of valuable likes in the world that should be retained.

  • Maxyme99-PGOMaxyme99-PGO Posts: 483 ✭✭✭
    Yes, absolutely!

    I think there should be reset, or at least reset likes from account below some level (or just inactive for really long time ones), like it was mentioned in some posts.

    After change of gym choosing method we got three new gyms in my area.They still were made on oldest wayspots in area, possibly with most likes on them too (we added many new wayspots in that area, and none of the new one had become gym). So I'm not sure that likes don't affect PoGo anymore. It was changed, but it still has some impact here. I think less, but still has some. So reseting the non-active players likes might help making gym placement really random, and give a chance for new wayspots becoming them too.

    And now my opinion not only based on PoGo: I think it could help Ingress players too. Many people who gave likes on portal's photos don't play anymore, and it might be difficult to actual players to choose better photo because they can't give together more likes that the old photos got from all this years of game. Some places don't have that much players as it had some time ago, and new ones can't outnumber old likes. It might also refresh game for newer players and make it more exctiting, and that's always a good thing too.

  • BigRaptor-INGBigRaptor-ING Posts: 11 ✭✭
    I have another idea - and will explain it in detail in a comment.

    There were a lot of pixies who voted on images once upon a time. How do you feel their votes should be handled now, especially since many of them are no longer with us? Would it be unfair discrimination to target votes made by pixies? 😉

  • Kellerrys-INGKellerrys-ING Posts: 490 ✭✭✭✭
    No, definitely not

    While I occasionally curse old photos that are impossible to outvote, I wouldn't like the reset. Those old thumbs also tell about the "history" of the portal.

    For same reason I also dislike people trying to remove "bad" photos from the gallery. (Obvious trolling photos are a different thing.)

  • Perringaiden-INGPerringaiden-ING Posts: 114 ✭✭✭
    No, definitely not

    Before Niantic encouraged PoGo to damage the Ingress thumbs with gym nominations, we had this under lock...

  • SiIverLyra-PGOSiIverLyra-PGO Posts: 355 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Do we know if the PoGo likes are added to the Ingress likes, or counted separately? Did anyone from the current test countries ever clarify that?

  • Brukterra-PGOBrukterra-PGO Posts: 572 ✭✭✭✭
    Yes, absolutely!

    A screenshot was sent to me the other day, along with a video. It looks like both are independent of each other.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmeiROo0dTs


  • HaramDingo-INGHaramDingo-ING Posts: 425 ✭✭✭✭
    I have another idea - and will explain it in detail in a comment.

    Not really, however, I am constantly reminded of travesties where a very poor, blurry night photo has 20+ likes that I can't even compete with. I don't believe likes are a great indicator for whichever photo should be main photo, some people like to have their names on things (like me, in a way, except I put nice quality photos that fit very well with all games' aspect ratios, which, for all of them is concurrent and has a nice horizontal fitting to it), but some others like someone has mentioned would prefer buttocks. Or maybe a small smurf toy hidden somewhere.

    I am reminded of some of the hilarious angles of photos that appear in the Photo Appeals section of this forum such as this one. But at the same time, all of these (unless added to the wayspot due to duplication, or the original wayspot's photo) were accepted by Niantic staff at one stage. I have seen photos of the wrong orientation, blurry or night photos being accepted, and I have seen rejected appeals of exceptionally bad photos, irrelevant or badly angled photos.

    Likes on a photo should not solely determine what the top photo is. Maybe some sort of AI thing that Google Maps uses to determine the cover photo of the wayspot? Well, to some extent (actually it's a bad idea, I've seen terrible ones be the cover photo). If some photos are equally good, maybe they could be rotated and cycled around? For example a priority matrix:

    • Recent photos over old photos -> A photo taken in 2021 should almost always precede a photo taken back in 2015. Although you should not remove old photos unless they are irrelevant, i.e. see how much a graffiti wall has changed artworks, or the evolution of a changing park sign, or even an old playground vs the new playground.
    • High quality over low quality -> Photos that are clear, have a higher resolution, better frames the wayspot in the middle, and are probably even artistic (photography and beauty are in the eyes of the beholder though) trumps low quality, bad exposure, pixelated photos.
    • Popularity -> Then, if there are two photos similarly taken at around the same date, have almost an equal or similar quality, then adjudicate it to the amount of likes on each photo. Although if the photos really are good, and express the wayspot differently, then maybe cycle them on a refreshing day by day or weekly basis. But having 60+ likes on a terrible blurry photo featured over a nice structured, more recent photo with just 2 likes is defeating.

    While the reason for some of these obscene amount of likes in Ingress was because it was the location of a shard or a factional goal many years ago, it may have been someone's couch portal, there were factional battles between ENL and Res, or maybe everyone was given a key to a Mars Rover portal via a passcode last month and everyone decided to also throw likes on everything else in range around it, these likes do have sentimental value on them, and even if all these likes were by players who have not played any of the games for years on end, their legacy should remain (really, unless the photo is really just atrocious).

    More emphasis needs to be placed on vetting the photo upload process. Moving it to the Wayfarer system just clogs up the queue even more, and I am sick of seeing Mewtwo being submitted as an additional photo to several Sydney wayspots. Niantic needs better work on approving the right photos, doing so in a more timely manner (some have been taking months now), rejecting photos while providing a real valid reason, and removing photos that no longer meet today's criteria (i.e. photos with smurf or frog toys, super low quality, irrelevant photos, or ones that don't actually focus on the wayspot in person).

    While likes also probably aren't the best indicator or mechanic for selecting the best gym when it comes down to it, you'd probably have to try and compromise... don't know how yet to do so.

    Sorry for the long post.

  • oscarc1-INGoscarc1-ING Posts: 215 ✭✭✭✭
    Yes, absolutely!

    This has come up many times in the past and I am in total agreement that the upvotes need to reset. There has been way too much Pokemon Go gym selection abuse everywhere and it is impossible to get a better photo to be the primary photo. PoGo players don't care and actively used multiple accounts to upvote a photo to manipulate the gym selection. It will be sad to see the hundreds of upvotes on the NL van portal or Mars Rover disappear, but this is a good chance to wipe the slate clean and start again. Those portals with hundreds of upvotes, many people have keys for (pretty sure most people keep at least one NL key lol) so it won't be hard to get the numbers back.

    They are separate. Ingress upvotes do not show in PoGo and vice versa. I haven't gone far enough to tell what becomes the primary photo or if the more upvotes will only affect the primary photo for that game.

    I do lol I'm almost Onyx on Scout Controller and have submitted hundreds of better photos, title and description edits on my journeys. It's about quality, a bad, or blurry photo or night-time photo just gives a bad representation of the wayspot, but a good photo makes it clear and easy to identify (especially when you need to find the Wayspot to scan it). Great photos will have you admiring the actual image too lol

  • MinusFive-INGMinusFive-ING Posts: 93 ✭✭✭
    No, definitely not

    How dare you, sir. That statue’s buttocks are a work of art.

  • BigRaptor-INGBigRaptor-ING Posts: 11 ✭✭
    I have another idea - and will explain it in detail in a comment.

    There is no photo voting capability included in Pokemon Go... what is this "PoGo likes" you refer to?


    This entire thread is based on a tin foil hat theory that liking photos in Ingress determines gym promotion in Pokemon Go... which Nitanic has already said is not how it works.


    Likes in Ingress merely determine default photo. Nothing more.

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