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For clarification because I see mixed opinions browsing.
Are ERII postboxes eligible?
I believe older PB’s have historical value and significance. Not sure about the modern ones.
No, they are not eligible. Even pre-ERII aren't eligible unless they are listed.
The concensus is that VR and Edwardian postboxes go through. Some of the Gerorge ones get debated about but I reject them all from Edward onwards.
Ah right ok I wasn’t aware about that with the others, I presumed they all had historic value.
Any tips on how one would swiftly and efficiently find out if a postbox is listed? Forgive my ignorance if this is well documented, I will do my bit of research as well.
Postboxes might have been eligible once but under the new criteria of exploration, social, or exercise, they don't really meet criteria.
An argument could be made for the golden postboxes because they're painted that way for the Olympic winners or something and an argument could be made for the unique/less common designs such as a Ludlow or even for a specific Cypher (I.E. Edward VIII) but overall, postboxes aren't an example of a good quality wayspot.
In this area, anything that isn't Elizabeth era is accepted first time. Elizabeth boxes are always rejected.
They are generally considered to have historical value and therefore links to exploration criteria - since wayfarer I am always looking at what kind of postbox I'm passing and it's made me more aware of the monarchy. I like reading interesting descriptions which contain facts about the monarch too.
Generally I'd submit postboxes for George and earlier and just see what the reviewers think. They aren't explicitly ineligible, just they seem to be very unpopular on this forum and relatively acceptable to less vocal reviewers.
Absolutely no to EiiRs expect in some very specific circumstances.
Ones painted gold for a local Olympian achieving a gold medal - 7* if we could
Ones permanently painted to commemorate an event, like the 4~ painted blue to give thanks to Sir Captain Tom Moore and the NHS.
Ludlows - there are only about 10 of these left in the country, these are special boxes made of wood, when the postmaster had to pay out of their own pocket for the construction of their office’s box. They were painted wood with a metal frame to save money. They stopped after a year into Elizabeth II’s coronation so that’s why they are so rare.
Anything pre-EiiR is fine, make sure the description and dates are accurate and it should always go through. (if it doesn't, just keep trying)
Ignore anyone that says they aren't, this matter was settled a long time ago now.
Exceptions to the EiiR rule are, gold ones(Olympics), blue ones (NHS), Ludlow boxes, some green ones (usually in ireland), liverpool specials, scottish post boxes with no sipher.
Settled? Not if are giving the OK to anything pre-EIIR it's not. 🤣
Settled a long time ago? How long are we talking? Before the criteria overhaul?
Gotta love it when countries make up their own rules.
British standards are so low that they are actively infecting other countries
The only EiiR postboxes I'd consider to be eligible would be the Golden Postboxes from the London 2012 games. The blue NHS and blue cricket postboxes are temporary so personally I wouldn't approve them.
meets all criteria that we see on the review page, if you aren't from the UK then just don't worry about it, mind ya business.
I wonder how many reviewers know the difference in the Royal Cypher of Edward and Elizabeth marked postboxes.
When rejecting an E II R postbox what do you put as your reason?
Also how is not mailing a letter not classed as a form of exercise when you are walking to a postbox?
Is walking not exercise?
Well, having just rejected at least 4 postboxes this morning within about 10 mins of reviewing time, including one of the ever popular "EIIR - Edward the Second" ones, I just 1* them as "does not meet criteria - mass produced/generic/not interesting. Unless it's a genuine Queen Vic or Edward, it's not getting my vote.
The object is mass-produced, generic, or not visually unique or interesting.
Meets one of the rejection criteria too.
Back before the Great British Postbox Debate started, I would've been fully on the side of thinking they're just postboxes, and I can completely understand why people would hold this viewpoint, having held it myself in the past.
Since it became a hot topic though, I have to say that I've been swayed and I'm generally in favour of the pre-Elizabeth II postboxes being considered as wayspots. The debate has led me to learn more about British history than 9 years of history lessons at school ever taught me. It hasn't just taught me about the history of the postal system and monarchy either, as I've then gone on to learn more about historic architecture and such, all because of a debate about the humble British Postbox.
Historic England (the people who are responsible for keeping the list of historic and/or architecturally important structures and places in England) has a policy document on postboxes. Very few postboxes are granted listed status, but Historic England do recognise that they are a cherished feature of British streets and even describes them as "national treasures", adding that they "make a significant contribution to the character and appearance of the areas in which they are located". The policy (made jointly with Royal Mail, and with approval from the Department of Culture, Media & Sport) is for the retention and conservation of all Royal Mail postboxes. They also state that "Royal Mail post boxes add richness, colour and historical depth to the street scene and are so highly regarded that they have become part of the national image", which I do personally agree with.
A lot of postboxes are now considered undesignated heritage assets (occasionally termed as non-designated heritage assets, because English language is awkward like that sometimes), with a few of the older ones being granted the status of designated heritage assets (the latter status referring to the listed ones). Whether designated or undesignated though, a heritage asset is still considered to have importance to its locality.
Given the above information, the fact that all pre-Elizabeth II postboxes are no longer in production, and that those postboxes are actively being conserved due to their importance as a part of British history, culture and iconography, I feel that they do have genuine merit as wayspots, and I do personally find them extremely interesting. Others will no doubt disagree, and that's perfectly fine (you can't really have a debate about something if everyone agrees on it after all).
For the Elizabeth II ones, I give 1*, choose other rejection criteria, and put "Ordinary Elizabeth II (modern) post box, does not meet criteria. "
For older ones, I generally give 4 or 5*.
Not that interested in getting into a full debate, but honestly, lots of stuff meet that criteria, play parks for example are full of generic and mass produced items, they are fine. Park entrance signs are mass produced and generic, they are fine (I know noth of these are used to represent the play park/park itself but in an earlier thread, picnic benches were not allowed for anchors due to generic mass produced, even though it was the picnic area thats being submitted). Looking further, post offices, especially the post office in Britain, is a chain business, but they are ok. Just trying to point out, meeting a rejection criteria can be overlooked for other reasons when needed at the reviewers discretion, hence why post boxes can be accepted while overlooking rejection criteria at the reviewers discretion
Also on play parks ignoring rejection criteria. It could be argued play parks are k12 as they are designed for and used by children (a returning ingress player I spoke to actually finds it creepy that they are in game) yet we have been told to accept them and ignore the possibility of k12
K-12 is an Americanism that indicates Kindergarten through twelfth grade SCHOOLING. Nothing in any Niantic official rule says waypoints cannot be where youngsters gather, and many of the approval examples cater to youth.
We need the clarity to understand and honor the principles that dictate why something is an appropriate acceptance or rejection criterion, and must not stretch, shrink, or deform them beyond reason.
Post boxes do not equal exercise, public playgrounds are not schools, picnic areas are not mass-produced objects, etc.
Wrong, things that are aimed at children/teens are not allowed. Boy Scout halls, not allowed, after school things like dance halls aimed at children not allowed, this has all came up multiple.times on the forums
This then illustrates how Niantic should not have used K-12 terminology to begin with. Had they started with a clearly defined thing with clear reasoning, they wouldn’t have to keep coming up with new answers.
I thought things in amusement/theme parks, petting zoos, unique kiddy rides were all over wayfarer, and it was understood that there were players under the age of eighteen.
K-12 means school for children. Not ice cream shops, recreation areas, etc. Now, I have no understanding of how playgrounds and little league fields are in, or what is actually supposed to be excluded.
I knew that dedicated Scout Halls had been brought under the umbrella, but not the rest?
I can't point to anything that clearly explains this, but my understanding from following this forum is:
Its from last year, the link to is
Play parks promote exercise and socialisation.
Park signs are handy as the wayspot for a park overall and as such as be argued for the exploration and socialisation aspects of the Wayfarer criteria.
Postboxes, imo, don't really fit the three aspects of the current criteria nor are they really something I'd take someone to see thats visiting, especially if they have postboxes in their area.
Play parks are usually a public facility. If they're attached to a nursery or a scout hut or a school or any premises that actually are, to use NIA's phrasing, K12, then by all means, they should be rejected but if they're ones that are in the middle of a housing estate or somewhere in a village, then they're not really K12.
But play parks have mass produced/generic items.
Same again, the signs are mass produced/generic, and that'd not evenb an exaggeration, in my city literally every sign is the exact same except it has the parks name
In my opinion I've went looking for and also seen people go looking for post boxes, either to send letters or to submit as a wayspot (that last one is oddly specific lol) but as people have pointed out, they have historical significance, they have cultural significance (there eas even one in the recent pokemon game), they have a social significance when an area becomes big enough for its own post box. There are lots of reasons to.submit them and as pointed out, rejection criteria can be overlooked
Honestly, if an.adukt is using a play park for.exercise, I'd be worried. I'm not.arguing that play parks should now.be rejected, but do you not find it strange that niantic is basically ally saying its OK for large groups of people (most of the time without a child in sight) to hang around a play park, destroying portals and hacking keys, taking gyms,l in pokemon, doing whatever Harry Potter does etc. As I mentioned, a returning ingress player was genuinely confused and a bit weirded out that way parks were acceptable because, you know, children are the main people to use them
@gazzas89-ING - "doing whatever Harry Potter does"
I think we found a muggle, everyone. Sorry, couldn't resist that haha
Pokemon's target audience are a younger demographic, so they're the ones most likely to use a play park. Parents might sit in them to socialise with other parents, so that's two birds, one stone.
With postboxes, the only time you'd really need to look for them is if you're not familiar with the area you're in. There's 5 postboxes within a 15 minute walk of my residence and a post office inside a shop. I only live in a town with about 33,000 people and we have plenty of postboxes dotted around.
So whilst play parks might have "generic, mass produced items" and signs, they encourage exercise for the younger demographic, as well as socialisation.
In regards to a bunch of adults standing inside those parks playing Ingress and destroying portals or capturing them. There's plenty to be done on Ingress solo, as much as there is co-ordinating with players from the same faction. The only time I've had to loiter at a portal is when I'm farming it for keys. If I just walking round and using up bursters, I don't really need to stand somewhere for an extended period of time. With raids on Pokemon Go, I imagine the groups probably wouldn't be stood there for too long either.
Also, no one is saying that anyone must stand in a play park to do whatever they're doing on whatever game they're playing. I don't think I've actually had to enter a playpark to capture a portal and do a raid yet.
My point was, and you touched on it, is that we can overlook rejection criteria when it suits, you literally admitted that a play park encourages exercise whilst also admitting they are mass produced and generic, so you've actually helped my point there. So saying post boxes should be rejected for being mass produced even though they meet other criteria (you personally might not see it, but I see then as things to find while exploring suburban areas, as well as being historicaly and culturally important) means we should also reject play parks for the same thing if that's the logic being used
Again, I'm not saying reject play parks, I'm again pointing out that to say we should reject post boxes because they meet 1 criteria for rejection, while choosing to ignore that rejection reason for others, is very hypocritical
As for adults round a play park, yeah, thats just dependent on area, you might not personally have needed to, but I've been part of a 40+ person group that waited for 15 to 20 minutes around a play park, waiting for the raid to start and everyone to turn up, then sort out raid groups, do the raid (I believe it was a regi, so even with 20 ppl it still took a minute) then wait as everyone shiny checked then captured. Outside of covid times that can happen a lot. As for portals, I did have to go into a play park to knock the shields off a portal being used as an anchor then because I assume at least 2 people were charging, had to walk round ultra striking resonators individually, luckily that one was later at night, but had that been a busy day it would have been weird to do
I'm not overlooking the rejection criteria though, am I? NIA have said play parks are fine. Not every single individual piece of equipment in them. Just like they're not rushing forward to say "yes, postboxes in the UK are perfectly eligible".
Postboxes literally don't meet any of the three main points of the criteria, which are: Exploration, exercise, and socialisation. Play parks can at least be argued for meeting at least one of those.
Honestly, it's time that the arguments for postboxes get dropped now. NIA have said they're not eligible.
Except they do, they meet mass produced and generic. You can argue its the play park and not the equipment, but then i would direct you to my question about picnic areas that are clearly picnic areas, and eas told by niantic that taking a picture of the benches (plural, not one) to use as the anchor picture was not acceptable because generic and mass produced
And I would argue they do meet exploration, they would be urban exploration, there are groups that go out to find them. And again, they are historicaly and culturally important to Britain, while that might not be a complete following of criteria, it should be as its what a lot of things get through (historical at least)
You and a few others might not want them, but many, many, many, many reviewers do and still choose to