U.K. Postboxes
Firstly an apology, I made a massive mistake last year asking the AMA postbox question but it opened a Pandora’s box that needs to be closed
The majority of postboxes are just regular and mass produced, realistically the only interesting ones are Edward Viii ones as there are only 138 left. Penfold postboxes are interesting as they are visually unique and Golden postboxes have an interesting history as each one was painted in honour of an Olympic Gold Medallist.
please can we get some clarification that the more common and less interesting ones are not eligible. There are 18,213 GR postboxes and many are now becoming portals, add those to the 9000 GViR postboxes and that’s a lot of low quality portals entering the network
Best Answers
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NianticCasey-ING Posts: 538 admin
Confirmed, if there's nothing visually unique about these postboxes (i.e. that they've been painted with a mural or are historic for some reason) then they're not eligible.
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Perringaiden-ING Posts: 124 ✭✭✭
Why are we so against adding postboxes as wayspots, surely the more wayspots in games the better the gameplay.
Because Niantic's core goal is to get people out and exploring Points of Interest in their region. It's not to make people go to the neighborhood post box. Because a mass produced receptacle of mail is neither interesting, nor unique. The next time you have a friend in town, ask them whether they'd be interested in visiting all the post boxes in the area...
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Senmana-ING Posts: 129 ✭✭✭✭
Before his original question, postboxes were rarely accepted. Even the most historical and rare ones. People saw them as generic street furniture.
He didn't need to try and sell the historical and cultural value of the rarest ones again this time, we've already been told those meet criteria. However, people have purposely ignored the mass produced part of the previous answer for their own gains. I'm glad he seeked clarification on the mass produced aspect, there's nothing visually unique about a red box with the same cipher as 18000 other ones.
Answers
Confirmed, if there's nothing visually unique about these postboxes (i.e. that they've been painted with a mural or are historic for some reason) then they're not eligible.
Oh boy. Are there going to be a lot of Brits disappointed by that news. But I am glad to see some sanity brought back involving those post boxes.
@NianticCasey-ING There you go making the poms cry. 😂 But really it was getting out of hand. Thanks for the clear statement.
Oof, glad I'm not a UK reviewer. Spreading this criteria clarification is gonna be a pain.
@NianticCasey-ING this is one of the clarifications you should 100% add to the next update to criteria clarifications to the wayfarer site. Many UK reviewers believe that any mailbox that isn't a EiiR mailbox is eligible.
It's already clear in the help section.
Potentially confusing nominations.
Post offices - Eligible, as long as they are standalone buildings rather than individual postboxes, windows, etc.
November release 2019. Is more current than the outdated AMA answer.
Thank you for the quick response @NianticCasey-ING
The wording was already clear, mass produced postboxes should be rejected. The vast majority of postboxes are mass produced and just having a cipher of a previous monarch doesn't make them historic. Old =/= historic.
But someone on reddit made an unofficial infograph with ticks on most of the ciphers and reviewers seemed to take that as official and approved nearly everything 🙈
Thanks for this clarification. I still love my Edward VIII, and I appreciate you asking the original question YouLostAStar because it gave me a new obsession 🙃 Also it did add a lot more Wayspots to areas that had little else. But it was getting out of hand 🤣
Why are we so against adding postboxes as wayspots, surely the more wayspots in games the better the gameplay.
I'd rather see a GR postbox as a portal than other really poor submissions I've seen. Why not let them through?
Also even if GRs are not allowed, as the second most common postbox, the others should still be valid, VRs particularly.
Let's get more wayspots in the game!
Why are we so against adding postboxes as wayspots, surely the more wayspots in games the better the gameplay.
Because Niantic's core goal is to get people out and exploring Points of Interest in their region. It's not to make people go to the neighborhood post box. Because a mass produced receptacle of mail is neither interesting, nor unique. The next time you have a friend in town, ask them whether they'd be interested in visiting all the post boxes in the area...
I agree with @Perringaiden-ING you would not tell friends about your GR postbox at the end of the road.
ive made a trip out to see an EViiiR because they are genuinely very rare (because he abdicated immediately so very few very made) and Golden ones I always find out which Olympic medallist it was painted for which is an interesting story but other than that a postbox is just for Mail, it is kinda cute we have an obsession with cyphers but it’s not enough for 30,000 portals because of it
I too do not understand this bias against postboxes.
It does encourage exploration. Yes there may be one (emphasis on the one) local to you but most are not and they encourage you to go down roads to find a new spot that you may never have gone down before. surely that is to be encouraged.
There are groups of postbox spotters whose hobby is to go around spotting postboxes. They certainly appreciate these boxes for what they are.
it also muddies the waters as to what make it of historic interest - much more subjective. For example many of the older postboxes (non-ER) are in place because they were located at a corner shop post office in the middle of early 1900s housing. This reflects historical change in the way we live and how places have changed over time. This will mean little to those outside the UK but locally it is part of the history of certain places.
I shall make a separate thread as I think there is a broader discussion about the purpose of wayspots needed.
I’m really disappointed in this thread, and feel that the question has been phrased in such a biased way to get the answer the OP was hoping for.
The criteria says that individual postboxes are 1* and a post office should be submitted instead, this is done from a US perspective, where their blue mail boxes are very generic and have zero historical / cultural significance.
The initial question to Andrew Krug in the AMA was to say that UK postboxes are different, they are painted in a bright iconic red and built with the cypher of whichever King or Queen was reigning at the time the box was constructed. We felt that our postboxes weren’t the same as what was described in the criteria, which is why the enquiry was made.
Paraphrasing the response, we were advised that if there was the historical / cultural significance or a visual aesthetic, our postboxes could be considered.
There are about 100,000 postboxes in the UK, the community consensus is that ones of our current Queen (EiiR) are not eligible, as there are about 67,000 of them nationwide and as she is still ruling, the box could have been installed yesterday.
This leaves approximately 33,000 (33%) that majority of the community consider eligible. As this is relatively new aspect of the criteria, the 20m exclusion radius excludes some of the very old postboxes in town and city centres, they are often built next to landmarks like churches, cathedrals, town & city halls etc., others are built into houses, which is deemed PRP by Niantic guidelines.
By an educated guess, this would only allow somewhere between 15 to 20% of our Postboxes that aren’t severely mass produced line to become live portals.
The very youngest of what the community is deeming eligible is 68 years, as that’s when Queen Elizabeth II was crowned (1952), so even the youngest of what is currently accepted is older than some cities. They are culturally significant in that they represent a British icon and an association to our Royal Family, one of the UKs greatest tourist attractions.
I feel that EiiRs should not be accepted for their numbers, Victorian and Edward VII ones to be accepted for their age, Edward VIII be accepted for their rarity, there’s less than 150 in the country. George V and George VI are the controversial ones, George V for their numbers, and George VI for their age, however George V died in 1936, meaning that a very large proportion of his boxes are over 100 years old, and still serving the community, George VI are the youngest of the boxes for consideration, but 68 years is a very long time ago, and they are still a rare find.
understanding the cyphers has helped me to learn more about my country and I stand by their significance. Postboxes are virtually always in safe public places, barring the occasional PRP, and especially in rural, historical villages, this Wayspot is often only one of half a dozen that are eligible, and can make or break a player base due to having the wayspots to play.
Apologies for the essay, I hope my passion and enthusiasm for the subject shines through. I love playing Niantic games the education again from exploring the real world is something that Niantic envisioned for the game, and these postboxes are supporting this.
TL;DR There’s much more to British Postboxes than the post gives credit for. If Niantic wants to make an update to the guidance and/or criteria. They can now make an informed decision.
Why would you ask this? It was clear and everyone was happy with how it was, especially since it was the HISTORICALLY SIGNIFICANT part that people were submitting them for, not the uniqueness. No to mention the vast majority of suburban areas were getting stops due to the post boxes. You hsbent helped ang gane by asking such a loaded question, instead you've ruined every game for everyone
@gazzas89-PGO It was very clear that many people were not happy with the current situation but most had just accepted how it was.
you are also Massively overstating the historical importance of them. while it’s a bit interesting and cute we have the cypher on the front of postboxes it isn’t interesting enough to justify over 30,000 portals
Who? Who wasnt happy? Reddit, telegram, dowcord, facebook, everything is pretty much happy about it. What you mean is the VAST minority m, yourself included, didnt like it, so rather than consider all these empty areas, rather than consider the rest of the player bases, you took it upon yourself to change the question (you have, you've made no.mention of historical or iconic for gr or grvi) so that they so t come through, you have intentionally loaded the question and its notnheloing anyone other than I assume a few people who don't like reviewing them, which is stupid as even if you and a few others dont like it it's easy agreements. And you have been extremely selfish on this given how many suburban areas and villages require something like these. Also, your argument is 30000 portals...... **** our country is massive, 30,000 portals is nothing in the grand scheme of things. If your gonna complain about that then are you gonna complain about all those play parks that are going through?cause that will be well over a hundred thousand of those. Tiuve not helped anyone here you've attempted to ruin every game, you've attempted to ruin the fun for people and all be auze you have his weird idea that people dodnt want then when they clearly did otherwise they wouldnt have gone through, you have been so selfish here and should have properly explained it to niantic Casey rather than put through the unbelievable loaded question
@gazzas89-PGO uniqueness of things is one of the guiding principles of what makes a good POI.
As I have said in another thread, Niantic have already said "please keep in mind that our goal is not to ingest every possible POI to get as many Portals/Wayspots as possible, but rather to ingest unique, interesting, artistic or notable local hotspots where players could gather or learn/discover something about their community."
Having thousands of postboxes as POI's goes against this principle.
@gazzas89-PGO lmao if you think I’ve “ruined the game for you” because some things shouldn’t be portals. Go investigate your local area a bit better and find genuinely interesting things to submit. There are good things out there but you have to put the effort in to go find them
Except it doesnt. People are going out and exploring more because of the post boxes. I've had several people go back to playing pogo because I got post boxes through, with all of them saying something along the lines of "I didnt even know that was there". If you wanna say uniqueness is an argument, then I'm guessing no play parks should go through and theres at least 10 times more of those, post offices shouldn't go through since they aren't unique. Unless you can give me a good reason why HISTORICAL AND ICONIC (which they are, they are listed and shown as part of Britain's culture) shouldnt be put through, then you only come off as a selfish person who doesnt want others going out and playing the game, just like he OP who loaded the question in his favour rather than actually explaining it properly (like the original question from the ama did)
It doesnt matter anyway. I'm ignoring this as it was clearly a bias question from the OP and I can guarantee pretty much everyone else will apart from the very sad, pathetic minority who will believe that its ruining something when in actuality it's been helping everyone
LOL. Brits are mad on Reddit that someone even dared asked for clarification since this was so explicitly contrary to the stated criteria. I honestly couldn't understand how a very common, mass-produced object meet the criteria even when the criteria explicitly stated that mass-produced objects (and individual postboxes) were ineligible. The rules should apply to everyone equally, without exemptions.
@NianticCasey-ING you probably need to revisit this. I agree with the others, the question was phrased poorly and lead you to an answer. In the US, mail boxes carry no significance. Not so in the UK.
I, for one, have learned a great deal about the history of the throne in my country as a direct result of these wayspots popping up. Further, I go out of my way to investigate post boxes in new areas to see if they're historic. Isn't the goal of Niantic's wayspot network to educate and prompt us to explore new areas?
Edward VIII boxes are incredibly rare, only the few cipher-less anonymous pillar boxes are rarer. But that doesn't detract from the scarcity, historical significance and cultural uniqueness of VR, GR and GRVI boxes. And yes, I would point them out to visitors new to the area/country, which is said to be one of the primary criteria to consider for our nominations.
With the recent 'clarification' around bars and pubs needing to be in a local guidebook to qualify, there's a definite feeling that US cultural norms are being applied to countries where it's not necessarily appropriate. The village pub is a UK staple and often the main cultural hub in smaller towns, guidebook or not.
I appreciate being based in the US will colour your opinions, but you need to think again on some of these and how they apply in Britain lest we end up with very few portals in many areas, leading to disengagement and people packing up playing altogether.
Indidnt say ruined the game for me, I said ruined the game for everyone you selfish idiot. Maybe where you are you got lucky, but in my area I've been out and walked round every street a hundred times over it was post boxes and a park, that was its and it's the same for the vast majority of suburban areas. You didnt even address the fact you loaded he question, toy didnt even address the fact that you lied saying that most people all were complaining when it was the exact opposite. You try to bring up this "30000 portals"as though that's a lot when its probably less than a decent sized city has altogether. There is literally no reason for anything you've done with this other than to be a spiteful, selfish, inconsiderate person and the fact so many people have disagreed with you on telegram says it all.
@gazzas89-PGO The original question on the AMA was also asked by @YouLostAStar-ING if you weren't aware. He's not rewording someone else's question or trying to get a different answer. Both questions and answers here are basically the same. Mass produced postboxes have no historical value and never did.
Yes in aware, and he has reworded it, he originally mentioned the history and the iconic significance of them, which he hasn't done now. Hes loaded he question thisntime hes lied since then trying to make sound like the majority dont want post boxes anymore, hes been deceitful this whole time and anyone agreeing with him is just being selfish as well.
UK postboxes do have historical value thank you very much. Every style and cypher has a story behind it!
We can't give 5* to coin operated rides outside supermarkets and then disregard 100 year old postboxes that carry a story. This update needs to be revisited!
Before his original question, postboxes were rarely accepted. Even the most historical and rare ones. People saw them as generic street furniture.
He didn't need to try and sell the historical and cultural value of the rarest ones again this time, we've already been told those meet criteria. However, people have purposely ignored the mass produced part of the previous answer for their own gains. I'm glad he seeked clarification on the mass produced aspect, there's nothing visually unique about a red box with the same cipher as 18000 other ones.
If all something needs to be is iconic to be eligible, then US postboxes would fit the "iconic critiera" since they all have a uniform shape, color, and are everywhere. Same would go with phone booths. But instead, those things are rejected as common and mass-produced objects. And why does it seem that just about everything in Briton is declared "iconic". McDonald's "Golden Arches" are iconic, but they aren't eligible.
UK postboxes fit criteria as follows:
Picture: 5* if its a good picture
Title/Description: 5* if it contains the correct title, street name and relevant historical information (supporting statement can back this up)
Historical or Cultural Significance: 5*, they relate to our royal family, they show specific points in British history based on their style, size, sypher etc. They are used as POI in other games as a unique identifier for the UK. (Pokemon games, COD games, other games which are uk themed). They are also used on a massive amount of tourist merch meaning that they are interesting to people visiting the country.
Visually Unique: Can go up and down based on the age of the box, but generally they are spaced out enough to make them at least 3*. 5* for ER7 ones.
The old letter pillars/wall boxes are not really produced anymore and haven't been for many years, they have been replaced with plastic ones that are usually placed inside shops. When a new king/queen comes in they replace the doors a selection of the old remaining postboxes with the sypher of the new monarch rather than building new boxes.
Safe Access: 5* they are on pavements, away from roads, in town centres where there is only foot traffic
Location Accuracy: 5*, they can be seen on the vast majority of google street view/maps and the pin can be placed directly on top of the box with no issues.
If these rules can't be applied to UK post boxes, then at least 90% of the POI in Niantic games don't qualify to be in the games.
British post boxes are protected by Historic England for their value in our cultural heritage. The full document may be found on this page:
https://historicengland.org.uk/images-books/publications/royal-mail-post-boxes/
Every British post box is hand finished (see the photo on the cover of the Historic England booklet) not "mass produced" in the sense that most postboxes around the world are. They are icons of British style and craftsmanship.
@Pangarban-ING was not aware he had been having this argument for a while, it explains why hes clearly worked the question to hide the iconic and historical values that he himself brought up in the original question way back. Knew I was right to tell him to delete it and word it properly so it wasnt loaded