Children daycare on church grounds
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I have noticed more and more churches providing some sort of children daycare inside their church or on a daycare designated area in/next to their building. Normally I would deny a daycare center while reviewing, but how should I deal with these? Which part does dominate here, the church or the daycare?
Comments
They way I view it, if the daycare is inside the church building, then unfortunately that means the church is not eligible. If the daycare is a separate structure, then anything that is at or part of the daycare is ineligible (including any playgrounds), but the church building is eligible.
Even with the church being for all ages? That seems like a grey area sort of but i understand the logic behind it
For me it would be pretty simple: if someone's nominate daycare in a church (or managed by church), I would reject it for K-12, but if someome is nominating a church and only mention that it also has some kind of daycare for children, I would accept it.
A church is a temple that is trying to help for it's local community how it can. But it's still a church for all believers to visit, and it having any daycare or other activites for children shouldn't reject church itself. Many churches has childrens choirs or ask childrens to help during mass, it's pretty common knowledge and it was never a reason to reject churches, so I don't think managing daycare should be one too. And I'm pretty sure that daycares aren't really in church itself but mostly in another building that church's own (like parish house or something like that, most churches aren't good place for taking care of children inside them for a few hours each day). So I think it shouldn't be the reason to rejects churches now.
But I would like Niantic reply to this too, I would like to get some comfirmation or explanataion what we should do too.
Niantics view has always been if a building, in this case a church, is being used as pre school or daycare facility then its to be rejected.
The fact that usually churches are a rock solid candidate doesn't matter, if a candidate meets rejection criteria then that supersedes any eligibility for that submission
There are a lot of playgrounds (ballfields, etc.) on church property that I'm asked to vote on. Sometimes the playgrounds are there because there's a daycare facility or school; if I know that's the case I reject the playground. Sometimes I don't know, so I assume that they are there because the kids play during Sunday school; I accept those.
Regarding the church itself, if the school is adjacent or very close, I would reject. If the school is near the church but with a definite separation, I would accept the church being sure that the POI is placed away from the school.
I have also seen a lot of youth rooms, 12 years to18 years old and don't know what to put. From working in a church previously workers have to be fingerprinted to work with kids for insurance purposes and strangers off the street are not suposed to be allowed in kid youth areas, so playgrounds and Sunday school classrooms should not be nominated for the churches insurance policy but they are, should we be rejecting themreasons? School reasions?
It's a difficult one but if the location is a daycare then they are not going to want people hanging around playing games with their phones out. You can see how it might cause anxiety and safeguarding issues.
I would not reject a church for having a daycare hosted there - it is not the main purpose of the church and the church remains eligible because many other people visit it too, not just the children going to daycare.
However if someone nominated the daycare at the church I would reject that submission.
My reasoning is that I would not reject a community centre or village hall just because a scout group meets there among other groups. I think its the same here. The main purpose of the site is not K12 - there are many other reasons to go there.
Day care centers are specifically listed as rejections, you have no justification in accepting them.
It makes no odds if it's in a church, its the location of a daycare facility and must be rejected.
That's not how I read the criteria. The understanding I have is that a church has a congregation of all ages, and is an eligible waypoint because of what a church means to the community. Hosting a daycare in addition to all their other provisions doesn't seem to me to invalidate the whole church since the daycare is not the whole church and many people would go on and out all day.
I said if they nominated the daycare specifically I would reject that for sure. However a nomination for a church that sometimes looks after young kids doesn't seem an issue to me? Otherwise all churches do Sunday school and most have mother and baby groups or other kids focused activities, so that would make almost all churches ineligible, which I just don't agree with.
Do you understand where I am coming from? I'm absolutely not advocating to see daycare centres as waypoints. But I'm saying a church that holds lots of community groups including a daycare doesn't sound ineligible to me because of how much else it does
Not only that, but also all playgrounds should be rejected as K-12 as well as they're primarily aimed at kids, even if there's public access.
Playgrounds have always seemed wierd to me compared to the K12 rule. I've just accepted that it doesn't make sense and 5*d all the playgrounds as instructed, and rejected all the schools, scout groups and nurseries as also instructed.
I assumed that the reason schools are explicitly not accepted is because schools consistently complain, and they don't like their kids playing pokemon during class hours. I don't think it has anything to do with protecting children, because obviously, these games are a paedophile's dream.
School and church staff are trained to look for an adult hanging around watching the children. Most kidnappings are the non-custodial parent (usually father), so care givers need to be vigilant. Anyone hanging out near a school (nursery, kindergarten, daycare, camp, youth building, etc) could have the police called on them - at a church or not.
Forty meters is a common legal measure. If church sign, statue, etc is at least 40 meters from where the church kindergarten is, I'd pass it. I'd also pass the main worship building entrance. School kids would be in classrooms, not in the more sacred large sanctuary.
I don't like church playgrounds at all. Parents leave their children in the care of others there (unlike a park or even apartment playground). Even if it's just Sunday mornings.
I'd give a serious look into what the main function of the building is and if its clearly a permanent church or converted into a church for mass only. If the main function is a daycare or school - reject, if the main function is Church then maybe approve. Nearly all churches aren't just open to the public at all times and have always been a weird spot in my opinion.
I don't know where do you live, but in my area churches are open since first mass (around 6 AM) to the night (after last mass on 7 PM church is open for 1-2 hours after it). You can come in at any time from 6 AM to 8-9 PM, no matter if there is mass or not. It was always closed only at night, to be safe from thieves. It changed since pandemic, you need to ask priest if you want to come in now, but when everything come back to normal it will be again open to anyone.
But we had discussions about permament acces many time, and it got explained that you don't need to have 24h acces to POI for it to exist or become accepted. Many places are closed for most of time and they're perfectly fine POIs - like cinemas, museums, restaurants, parks that have gates closed on specific hours etc.
There are also perfectly fine POIs that are available only to a few people and other players can't visit them - like some monuments or fountains in business area that only workers can acces or members-only clubs - they're perfectly good POIs, they meet every criteria to exist in game.
As for main topic, I wrote earlier what I think about it, so I only write short version again: If it's church buliding - it should be accepted, if it's daycare owned by church - it should be rejected. All these daycares are in separate building from church that it's very close to church building, but it's not church itself, so it shouldn't make church building ineligible only because of daycare close to it. Simple as that :)
There's a bunch of hole in the wall churches where I am that are a church occupying a generic office space. I have also been to a church that hosted several masses on the weekend but was a school gym during the weekdays. Many of these have very small congregations and may only host a couple masses per week, some of them do mass on sunday and have a business in them weekdays. This is what i mean.
This is kind of like a gym that runs a daycare. The daycare classrooms and the gym are two rooms in the same building, but the whole gym is really only a gym in the evenings and weekends, probably would be a reject.
I see, so in your case church is much more multifunctional than in my place :)
It's good to discuss it here, because it's perfect example of cultural difference topic.
In my case church is always a church, there never is anything else that mass or church association meeting held in this place, so it wasn't eady for me to understand your earlier comment without any example. Thank you for wxplaining it :)
If the stop can be reached from the sidewalk, and is not the play area it should be okay, but I have seen nominations that are further on the property in kid areas, and that's not good.
I caused at least one that was accepted before Niantic Wayfarer to exist to be removed. If the Wayspot is between the sign for the preschool/church sign, that was done intentionally. I made sure to provide Google Map pictures that showed the sign and the Gift I received. Having those removed is simple to do. I do not enjoy that.
Here's how I think about it:
If something's main purpose is a K-12 school, even if it's sometimes used for other purposes, it should be rejected. One example of this is a school that is primarily K-12 but also has night classes for adults.
If something's main purpose is something else, but there are s K-12 classes in it sometimes, then it is acceptable.
In this specific case if the daycare is a separate space I would disallow that space. If it's a part-time use of part of a larger space that is used for multiple purposes I'd accept it.
I know of at least 2 ineligible Wayspots at churches that are either officially a preschool or daycare in town. I will not be near either for awhile. How do I report those as such? I am too far too see either.
I would recall that @NianticGiffard has once rejected an Invalid Wayspot Appeal of a church that has a daycare in the same property:
And, this is his reason:
Unfortunately neither of these are written in the criteria, nor further clarifications are given.
Actually, the church in Little Rock, Arkansas is Westover Hills Preschool. M - F, the church is just a preschool. Just east of the building is a Portal/Gym (Hardie Chapel Cross).
West of South University Avenue on W 32nd St is St. Luke United Methodist Church (sign). The church is used as a daycare or preschool. I am not sure which. East of S University Ave is UALR and the likely way the location was approved.
Google Maps shows each at each location is you look please. I read the reviews for the one on W 32nd St today. I graduated years ago from the other location. I finished school. This is nothing against the preschool.
Please use the report section of the forum for this. The thread is supposed to be more of a general discussion on the topic and different approaches in different places.