The right to upgrade should be able to be reapplied anywhere, over and over again until Wayspot goes

KOWLOONsGT-INGKOWLOONsGT-ING Posts: 86 ✭✭✭

The right to upgrade should be able to be reapplied anywhere, over and over again until Wayspot goes Live❗️


We demand a change in the system.


The upgrade right does not work as a reward if it only "speeds up the review process".

In order for the upgrade right to work as a reward, it should be able to be reapplied anywhere and anytime until "Wayspot goes live" (i.e., accept but not live because it's too close, and true accept except for rejection and duplication)❗️


If you implement this, the judges who got fed up with the unreasonable system and left will join Wayfarer again.


1. it will save the nominations of veteran judges who have been unreasonably rejected. 2.

2. new judges who have been rejected for inexperienced nominations will have an opportunity to learn.


Save the judges from the stress of wasting their time on an immature and flawed Wayfarer system.


In order to make this new system work, we will need to stop the system where duplication adds photos to Wayspot (which is frustrating and unsightly), and stop the system where upgrades are automatically applied. Probably many other things.


I read Wayforum and learned about the fact that upgrades were given as rewards for the Poland Wayfarer challenge.

Niantic should be able to make up for the unreasonable loss of upgrades to us judges if they are 'willing' to do so.

Don't tell me they can't!

It should be done!


If you are a judge who agrees, please click the "Like" button.

Thank you for reading.


Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)


upgradeの権利はWayspotがLiveするまで何度でもどこにでも再適用できるようにすべき❗️


システムの変更を求めます。


upgradeの権利で『審査が早まる』だけでは報酬としては意味を成しません。

upgradeの権利が報酬として機能する為には『WayspotがLiveする』(つまり、acceptしても近すぎる為にLiveしない事とrejectとduplication以外の本当のaccept)まで、何度でもどこにでも再適用できるようにすべきです❗️


これを実装してくだされば、理不尽なシステムに辟易して離れた審査員も再びWayfarerに参加してくださる事でしょう。


  1. 理不尽な否認を受けたベテラン審査員のnominationsが救われます。
  2. 未熟なnominationsで否認を受けた新人審査員は学習する機会を得られます。


未熟で欠陥のあるWayfarerシステムの為に、費やした時間が無駄になるストレスから審査員を救ってください。


※この新しいシステムを成立させるためには、duplicationで写真がWayspotに追加されるシステム(見苦しい写真が増えることに苛立ちを感じます)を停止することや、upgradeが自動適用されるシステムを停止する必要があるでしょう。おそらく他にも色々。


私はWayforumを読みPoland Wayfarer challengeの報酬にupgradeが付与された事実を知りました。

Nianticは『やる気にさえなれば』私たち審査員が理不尽に失ったupgradeを補填する事が可能なはずです。

出来ないとは言わせません!

すべきです!


同意していただける審査員の方は“良いね”ボタンを押していただけますようお願いいたします。

読んでいただきありがとうございました。

«1

Comments

  • Theisman-INGTheisman-ING Posts: 625 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • KOWLOONsGT-INGKOWLOONsGT-ING Posts: 86 ✭✭✭

    I think the problem is that the current UPGRADE is not working as a reward for review.


    Have you ever had an unreasonable denial by an inexperienced reviewer?

    You might want to search Twitter.

    Some great nominations submitted by veterans have been unreasonably rejected❗️


    現在のupgradeがレビューの報酬として機能していない事が問題だと思います。


    未熟な審査員による理不尽な否認をされた事がないのですか?

    Twitterを検索してみては?

    ベテランの方が提出した素晴らしいnominationsが理不尽に否認されています❗️

  • GearGlider-PGOGearGlider-PGO Posts: 926 ✭✭✭✭✭


    It's true that a lot of good nominations get unfortunately rejected. The solution isn't to just let players spam upgrades over and over again, cause then a lot of great submissions that aren't upgraded would take much longer than needed to be reviewed.

    Niantic is working on improving the system to help mitigate this issue, but it's a complicated issue that's going to take time to figure out. And with the pandemic making everything more difficult and complicated, I don't blame them for not being able to do things as quickly as we'd like.

  • Sunkast-PGOSunkast-PGO Posts: 34 ✭✭✭

    If the issue you are trying to fix are reviewers, who you perceive to be inexperienced, how does this help them learn? One of the biggest issues has always been the lack of Niantic helping reviewers learn the criteria, and improve their knowledge of what meets criteria. Most reviewers take the test, and that's all they learn. A better solution would be for Niantic to help reviewers understand the guidelines/criteria.

  • KOWLOONsGT-INGKOWLOONsGT-ING Posts: 86 ✭✭✭

    I don't think the nomination result report email is currently working properly (the reason for denial in the Japanese email is so inappropriate that I wonder if some lines of the program are out of place). The reason for rejection is given in the email that tells you to reject the application. Beginners should be able to learn from that.


    I understand that the number one solution is to educate the judges.

    How many more times do I have to waste an upgrade before the judges are trained? I am at the end of my patience.


    Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)


    nominationの結果報告メールが現在正常に機能しているとは思えませんが(日本語のメールに記載される否認理由は何行かプログラムの記述がズレているのかと思うほど不適切です。)、否認を伝えるメールに否認理由が記載されています。そこから初心者は学習できるはずです。


    1番の解決方法が審査員の教育をする事なのは理解しています。

    審査員が育つまでに、あと何回私はupgradeを無駄にすれば良いのでしょう。我慢の限界です。

  • Hosette-INGHosette-ING Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 29

    There are two parts to a good submission:

    • The thing being submitted is a good candidate
    • The person submitting the candidate explained it well

    It is common for a good candidate to be presented or explained badly, and that is why it fails.

    This might help: https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/9890/how-to-submit-things-that-get-accepted

    (Via Google translate)

    良い提出には2つの部分があります:

    提出されたものは良い候補です

    候補者を提出した人はそれをよく説明しました

    良い候補者がひどく提示されたり説明されたりすることはよくあることであり、それが失敗する理由です。

    これは役立つかもしれません: https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/9890/how-to-submit-things-that-get-accepted

  • KetaSkooter-INGKetaSkooter-ING Posts: 159 ✭✭✭

    I'd add a third part that you can mostly get either a group of grumpy reviewers or happy reviewers voting on your nomination throwing the decisions just enough one way or the other.

  • KOWLOONsGT-INGKOWLOONsGT-ING Posts: 86 ✭✭✭

    Thank you for the useful information.

    I wonder how many newbies will find this information.


    有益な情報をありがとうございます。

    何人の初心者がこの情報を見つけられるでしょうか。

  • Hosette-INGHosette-ING Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @KOWLOONsGT-ING I am happy that it was useful to you. I share that link frequently, here and on other sites. Please feel free to share it with others.

    Was a mechanical translation to Japanese easy to understand? 


    お役に立ててうれしいです。 私は頻繁にそのリンクをここや他のサイトで共有しています。 他の人と自由に共有してください。

    日本語への機械的な翻訳はわかりやすかったですか?

  • KOWLOONsGT-INGKOWLOONsGT-ING Posts: 86 ✭✭✭

    Are those of you who voted "disagree" really happy with the current rewards for "getting the review done faster"?


    1 upgrade = 1 Wayspot

    Is it so wrong to ask for 1 upgrade = 1 Wayspot?

    Can't they see that there is a huge difference in the quality of judges from region to region?


    同意しないに投票した方達は本当に現在の報酬が『審査を早くしてもらえる』事だけで満足なのですか?


    1 upgrade = 1 Wayspot


    になる事を求めるのはそんなに間違っていますか?

    地域によって審査員の質に多大な差がある事に目を向けては貰えないのでしょうか?

  • Hosette-INGHosette-ING Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @KOWLOONsGT-ING Yes, I think it is wrong. 1 upgrade = 1 expedited review. The burden is on the submitter to use it wisely. I don't think it should be 1 upgrade = 1 wayspot.

    Why should 1 upgrade = 1 right to clog the review system repeatedly with garbage?

    はい、間違っていると思います。 1つのアップグレード= 1つの迅速なレビュー。 それを賢く使うのは提出者の負担です。 1つのアップグレード= 1つのウェイスポットであるべきではないと思います。

    レビューシステムをゴミで繰り返し詰まらせるために、なぜ1つのアップグレード= 1つの権利が必要なのですか?

  • KOWLOONsGT-INGKOWLOONsGT-ING Posts: 86 ✭✭✭

    Isn't it strange that the submitter bears the burden of the "reward"?


    When it's time to reuse the upgrade, if the applicant corrects the mistake or nominates another upgrade, the Wayspot baby that never saw the light of day will be born in the game.


    Aren't you too worried about clogging up the review process?

    We should be more worried that unsatisfied reviewers will get angry and quit the review, reducing the number of reviewers.


    Isn't that more productive than having reviewers and applicants spend time with each other and not have anything come of it in the game?


    “リワード”なのに、提出者が負担を負うのはおかしくありませんか?


    upgradeの再利用の時に、申請者が間違いを直すか、別の物をupgrade nominationすれば、日の目を見なかったWayspotの赤ちゃんがゲーム内にに誕生します。


    レビューを詰まらせることばかり心配し過ぎでは?リワードに満たされないレビュアーが怒って審査を辞めてしまい、レビュアーの人数が減る事をもっと心配すべきです。


    レビュアーと申請者がお互いに時間を費やしてもゲーム内に何も生まれないよりは生産性がありませんか?

  • 52cucumbers-ING52cucumbers-ING Posts: 207 ✭✭✭

    I'm not happy with the current system but it's better than what you proposed so I voted "disagree".

    They could avoid some of the nuisance by letting us save up our upgrades and have full control over where they are applied. There are situations where I absolutely do not want a nomination to be upgraded and there are situations where I need to upgrade if I want to live long enough to see it enter voting. As a result I am currently not reviewing because I have nominations planned this summer that I don't want upgrades on and currently I have nothing in my sights that would need an upgrade.

  • saarstahl-INGsaarstahl-ING Posts: 69 ✭✭✭

    I all am in favour of reusing upgrades until one nomination gets accepted. Increasing the number of upgrades does not increase the backlog, it just changes the priority of individual nominations.

    In my own experience as nominator, only playgrounds and soccer fields get consistently accepted. With other kinds of nominations, it feels more like a lottery. Industrial heritage gets a lot of rejections. What to do? Apply the upgrade to the boring stuff that is likely to be accepted, or to the awesome POI that has a higher chance of rejection?

    Someone who wants to resubmit garbage can just earn a new upgrade and apply it to the resubmission. Single-use upgrades do not solve this problem.

  • Thor3381-INGThor3381-ING Posts: 120 ✭✭✭

    But someone who sent in a picture of a tree right in front of his/her house will also be able to re-use the upgrade and send in over and over again the same tree which will always be rejected.

    In the end the bad nominations that once were upgraded will flood the system entirely, making upgrades worthless

    Do your reviews and you'll get upgrades, that's the name of the game: 100 agreements for 1 upgrade

  • KOWLOONsGT-INGKOWLOONsGT-ING Posts: 86 ✭✭✭

    If you keep rejecting stupid upgrade nominations, you will eventually notice the mistake and apply the upgrade to a good nomination.


    Are there so many fools that the system is flooded?


    愚かなupgrade nominationをrejectされ続ければ、いつか間違いに気が付いて良いnominationにupgradeを適用するでしょう。


    システムが氾濫するほど愚か者が大勢いるのですか?

  • saarstahl-INGsaarstahl-ING Posts: 69 ✭✭✭

    Good poiint. It should be impossible to use an upgrade in a 40-meter radius from any place where the same player has previously used an upgrade. That would prevent re-use of upgrades in the same location.

  • Stephyypooke-INGStephyypooke-ING Posts: 213 ✭✭✭

    Being able to re-use upgrades comes with a risk of people reviewing a lot less. I am sure most of us can agree we have heard people from our local communities reviewing because “they are close to an upgrade”, allowing submitters to re-use upgrades would lessen that and result in less reviewers.

    Veteran reviewers are usually reviewing enough to earn plenty of upgrades. If I don’t submit for 2 weeks, I usually blow through applying upgrades to all of the submissions I am comfortable upgrading and am having to go out and look for more slam dunks.

  • KOWLOONsGT-INGKOWLOONsGT-ING Posts: 86 ✭✭✭

    It's ridiculous to think of a system that focuses on stupid applicants who will eventually leave.


    Why do I have to make up for the lack of reviewers by getting rewards again?


    You should think about why the number of reviewers has decreased and take measures.


    Let's think together about what we can do to increase the Wayfinder population.


    Let's grow as many wonderful Wayspots as possible.



    Let's arrange the system so that a little inexperienced reviewer and a little unfamiliar applicant can grow while enjoying Wayfarer and continue Wayfarer.

    I don't think it's wrong to give a chance to retry without stress.


    いずれ去る愚かな申請者に焦点を当ててシステムを考えるのは馬鹿げています。


    何故レビュアーの少なさを再度リワードを取得させる事で補わなければならないのですか。


    何故レビュアーが減ったのかを考えて対策すべきでは?


    Wayfinder人口を増やすために出来ることがないか一緒に考えましょう。


    素晴らしいWayspotを一本でも多く生やしましょう。



    少し未熟なレビュアーや少し不慣れな申請者がWayfarerを楽しみながら成長し、Wayfarerを続けてくれる様にシステムを整えましょう。

    ストレス無くリトライのチャンスを与える事は私は間違っていないと思います。

  • Lechu1730-PGOLechu1730-PGO Posts: 537 ✭✭✭✭

    I think an intermediate solution would be that upgraded nominations are "saved" so you can choose to submit them again, maybe tweaking the texts.

    Then is up to the submitter to choose if they'll upgrade it again (and keep saving it) or not (and will be lost if rejected).

  • Raachermannl-INGRaachermannl-ING Posts: 546 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes and no. That depends on the reviewing timescales, I guess.

    I'm sitting on a large S2 cell border, where the southern side is very fast, and the northern side is nearly dead. So the southern side needs no boosts. At the northern side all fool proof candidates within my usual range are online. So I review only, if there are new fool-proof candidates, that would survive an upgrade. For unknown reason upgrades lower the chances for being accepted harshly, maybe because of the higher distribution range and the language chaos in central Europe. So the remaining dozens of candidates are all shaky ones or at least not fool-proof enough for surviving upgrades. So I review only occassionally, since I dont want upgrades right now.

    If the upgrades would be re-usable until an upgraded candidate is accepted, I would do more at least to get a dozen of upgrades, since all the shaky candidates like hiking trail markers, that are in most cases rejected wrongfully, could be upgraded again and again and again until those reviewers, who dont know the rules, note that hiking trails and their markers are enumerated as a big bullet point unter the exploration criterion ......

    But the big problem is, that the trolls could again and again send their trees and stones upgraded to block the queue. So there is too much abuse capability, that re-useable upgrades could be a valid improvement of the system.

  • gazzas89-PGOgazzas89-PGO Posts: 738 ✭✭✭✭✭

    On one hand I see the logic to reapplying, imagine reviewing for ages, getti g your upgrade, putting it onto a safe bet (soccer pitch, church, play park) and then bots or poor reviewers reject for dumb reasons (photo quality, historical/cultural significance) it would feel like wasted effort and time for nothing. But there is the argument people will abuse this to keep submitting bad stuff.


    I do think though that the upgrade system needs a severe overhaul. Its way too much work to get one when it's being done in free time. It then needs to be pre selected what it will go.on, and hellmend you if you're selection goes through and accepted before the upgrade applies to it, meaning it was wasted. Not to mention, you aren't allowed to wait till you get one before deciding, if you get an upgrade, and you haven't picked something, then it will just go onto somethi g completely randomly. How is any of that a reward?

  • Stephyypooke-INGStephyypooke-ING Posts: 213 ✭✭✭

    Correct me if I’m wrong, it sounds like you are saying if upgrades were re-usable, you would be more likely to use them because you wouldn’t feel as bad if they were wasted?

    I can understand that but I also feel that can be applied to the system as is. If you were to start reviewing more, even if you don’t have fool-proof candidates, you would continue to earn upgrades and be able to try again if needed. This also might help the chances of upgrades being approved - if more reviewers who know the criteria are reviewing, there is a better chance they can outweigh the reviewers who need further education and upgrades might not be so doomed anymore.

    Obviously, that’s easier to say when we are talking about local submissions that can be re-subbed at any time.

    I do agree the system could use a re-work, maybe change the way upgrades work? Instead of just sending them out to more reviewers, maybe send them out to non-local reviewers with a high enough rating? Or if Niantic goes through with the Community Advocate program, send upgrades to some of them and have their reviews carry more weight?

  • Hosette-INGHosette-ING Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @KOWLOONsGT-ING asks:

    Are there so many fools that the system is flooded?

    YES! Yes yes yes. In many places it takes six months or more for their submission to be reviewed.

    Many people stop reviewing because they are tired of looking at the same garbage over and over.


    システムが氾濫するほど愚か者が大勢いるのですか?

    はい! はいはいはい。多くの場所で、提出物が審査されるまでに6か月以上かかります。

    同じゴミを何度も見るのにうんざりしているので、多くの人はレビューをやめます。

  • Jtronmoore-PGOJtronmoore-PGO Posts: 1,360 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You should be able to bank your upgrades instead of it being automatically applied.

    I don’t think that you should be able to re-use an upgrade at all.

    Niantic has discussed that they may eventually have an appeal process for wrongly rejected nominations. Which is a much better alternative then endlessly resubmitting with the same upgrade that will clog the system.

    I can see the possibility of instead of upgrading a nomination that you can use it for an appeal. That way you don’t get people endlessly appealing garbage. This way it makes them think wether or not they want to appeal it

  • KOWLOONsGT-INGKOWLOONsGT-ING Posts: 86 ✭✭✭

    Thank you for your wonderful suggestion ❗️


    If the appeal system were to use the Wayforum, I would have to publish my residential area online for appeal, putting my personal information at risk.

    I don't want to use such a system.


    If the appeal system is possible by email, I'm in great agreement!


    素晴らしい提案をありがとうございます❗️


    上訴システムがもしWayforumを利用させるものであれば、上訴の為に居住区をネット上に公開する事になり、私の個人情報が危険に晒されます。

    私はその様なシステムは利用したくありません。


    上訴システムがメールで可能なのであれば大賛成です!

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