Please do something against abusive Rejecters!

I suggested some Trailmarkers, which should be eligible since November AMA, i get abusive rejections like Photo bad (example photo attached), fake position (i did 4!!!! 3D Photos in google maps surrounding this location), no footpath to that location (on a trailmarker!!!).

It is really desperating when you suggest possible good wayspots, wait for good weather conditions to get a good photo, suggest it and do an upgrade on it and it gets rejected with reasons which are obviously wrong!

It's the 4th time i try to suggest these and other trailmarker which got rejected with those reasons!

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Comments

  • Krabbesky-INGKrabbesky-ING Posts: 20 ✭✭

    What do you Think youself?

    do you Think this is an attractive place to be in?

    1 star, trailmarks should be actual trailmarks, not random signs

    this is exactly why everybody hates trailmarks, because some people surgest this

  • c0bRa001-PGOc0bRa001-PGO Posts: 38 ✭✭
    edited April 2021

    Yes i think a hiking trailmarker IS A GOOD WAYSPOT!

    Also rejected:

    Also Hiking Trail...

    First Google Hit for "US 74" is exactly that hiking trail!

  • c0bRa001-PGOc0bRa001-PGO Posts: 38 ✭✭

    So you want a trailmarker? Here! Rejected with living animals on picture and does not match criteria! -.-


  • Arnecouwelier-PGOArnecouwelier-PGO Posts: 74 ✭✭✭

    Pardon my ignorance, but where exactly is the trail name?

    I see:

    • names of towns / hill peaks nearby and the distance towards those (like well.. any directional marker would have. Trail markers don't usually list multiple destinations)
    • logo's of what is likely the operator of the signage for the network
    • possibly a color coded red/blue distinction with the red seemingly half-erased.
    • the 112 emergency phone number.

    I stand by my call these are not clearly distinguishable as 'named trail'-markers, UNLESS they are locally spotted as such AND the supporting info makes it very clear. Based on what's been said here, 'Eisenpark-weg' being the trail name could make sense somewhat, but honestly, usually the trail name takes up a majority of space on the marker, particularly in the first images they are ridiculously small.

    While for locals it might be a given, don't assume anyone 'reads' this as a trail marker. It's definately not an obvious one.

  • Arnecouwelier-PGOArnecouwelier-PGO Posts: 74 ✭✭✭

    Elaborating a bit further.

    I've just had these two come in as not eligible:

    These 'read' as trail markers: a clearly recognisable shape, name mention, visuals + a clear directional sign where the route goes.

    (these are for running routes, one 5,5km, one for a half marathon).


    Now I'm hoping/assuming I encountered people judging mine too harshly, but if those aren't deemed valid, I'm inclined to fear for yours.

  • Arnecouwelier-PGOArnecouwelier-PGO Posts: 74 ✭✭✭

    if the description and support text refer to that I’d probably be fine with it yes. We were only shown the picture and none of that screams trail marker nor is the trail name clear/obvious from it, especially as there is something else which does exactly look like this - your average directional marker.

  • Pennry-PGOPennry-PGO Posts: 41 ✭✭

    At first glance, almost all of these read as "this thing is that way" and not "you're at/on this thing". The former is invalid and the latter is valid. So without seeing the full submission with all the supporting information and whatnot, I'd reject these.

    As for getting BS rejection reasoning, welcome to Wayfarer. There are a whole slew of other threads complaining about such things and suggesting what should be done about it.

    My suggestions to your specific issues are: Don't let BS rejection reasoning get to you. Eliminate all the BS (ie Live Animal, when clearly there aren't any) and look at what's left. If you're just left with "Doesn't meet criteria", maybe think on if they really do or not. If you feel strongly enough that they do meet criteria, resubmit with adjustments to get your point across more clearly. Also, if this is a more local thing, try avoid using an upgrade on it and see if there's a local Wayfarer group you can join to help educate yourself and fellow reviewers.

    One last piece of advice for trail markers, specifically: Put your photosphere a bit away from the actual marker and include a supporting photo that is similar to a point of view that one would find in your photosphere. Too many spheres are put right on or next to the object. This can make it harder to locate the desired object and can even put the object in the "photographer void", making it disappear completely.

  • Xmacke7x-INGXmacke7x-ING Posts: 220 ✭✭✭✭

    I nominated lots of cycling trails in Germany. 15 got a decision so far. All of them are rejected. The general reviewer in Germany does not know the criteria or does not know what a trail marker here in Germany looks like. Another problem is that those trail markers are often standardized here.


    Niantic has to do soemthing to change it. They have to either educate the reviewers on certain topics or they have to manually add some trail markers. With this the reviewer might recognize that cycling an hiking trails are eliglbe

  • c0bRa001-PGOc0bRa001-PGO Posts: 38 ✭✭
    edited April 2021

    The Title for the first picture was:

    Wanderwegweiser Eisenpark-Weg [Translation: "Trail Sign Eisenpark-Weg"]

    Location: https://www.google.com/maps?q=50.394171,11.749003

    Description:

    Standort 1867-1. Der Eisenpark-Weg ist ein Rundwanderweg von und zum Eisenpark, in dem viele Skulpturen von dem Künstler Claus Frenz Claussen ausgestellt sind.

    English translation:

    [Emergency-]Location 1867-1. The Eisenpark-Weg is a circular hiking trail to and from the Eisenpark, in which many sculptures from the artist Claus Frenz Claussen are exhibited.

    Additional information:

    Der Rundwanderweg ist im Netz auch unter den Wanderwegen des Frankenwaldvereins zu finden. Er ist ca. 10,4km lang.

    English translation:

    The circular hiking trail can also be found on the internet under the hiking trails of the Franconian Forest Association. It is about 10.4km long.

    Surrounding photo:


    The Location Number is in the case you have an (medical) emergency, then you just have to say the location number and the emergency control center knows exactly where you are. Every sign(-post) has its own unique number.

    I did not link directly to the website, because the link in the additional informations brought a rejection in an older proposal by "html/links"...

    Also you can hike the trail clockwise or counterclockwise, so that is why it has 2 directions.

    But i am with you, that the Name of the trail is too small on that sign, i will contact the association and try to get a sticker for these trails with larger nameplate like in the second picture. There it was added afterwards way bigger and more readable.

    Post edited by c0bRa001-PGO on
  • c0bRa001-PGOc0bRa001-PGO Posts: 38 ✭✭

    That is exactly my problem, all 4 proposals were upgraded and rejected, and i have 3 upgrades to spare, and about 700 possible matches, which would give me more (rejection-)upgrades...

  • c0bRa001-PGOc0bRa001-PGO Posts: 38 ✭✭

    An average and generic directional marker in germany is yellow for villages/towns, brown for cultural spots and white for industrial areas, made out of iron and has exactly one eligible font which is called "Mittelschrift DIN 1451", for generic and official roadsigns, this is the only font! (Source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN_1451)

  • Raachermannl-INGRaachermannl-ING Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This is for sure a trail marker in terms of Nia-speech. In the eastern parts of Germany all valid trail markers have the style of directional signs. The named trail is in nearly 100% of the cases hidden behind a symbol or a color code. What you are searching for are the symbols at the opposite side of the arrow - exactly these are indicating hiking names. So the signs have multiple named trails, not only one. So the initial example is definitely 4/5* trail markers without any discussion needed.

    @Arnecouwelier-PGO in general hiking trail markers of other countries should be something, where reviewers should be very cautiously. So your own examples would be worse candidates compared to the German hiking trail marking system, but comparing it to the knoppuunt **** of your BeNeLux-region they are very good..... when I have to review knooppunt stuff I skip or 3* evrything .....



    @

    @c0bRa001-PGO skip this one. This one is hopeless .....

    Further I also can't recommend to upgrade trail markers. Hiking trail markers are not fool proof enough to survive the higher prioritization and wider distribution of upgrades. So your problem is already, that you have the half of czech republic in your reviewer range. Greetings from Saxony and Thuringia - I have the same problem 😜

    So I would recommend an English supporting text like:

    Hiking related wayspots encourage players to move and exercise. So Hiking Trails (depicted by their markers) are great wayspots according to wayfarers criteria and are explicitly enumerated as good candidates under the big criterion "A great place for exercise". This trail marker is for the [hiking/biking/educational] trail <trailname>; URL of the trail

    .... if the trail name is not obviously written down, you could add a sentence, that hints the symbol, for example for that FWV symbols to explain that for foreign reviewers.

  • Arnecouwelier-PGOArnecouwelier-PGO Posts: 74 ✭✭✭

    @Raachermannl-ING Yeah, I'm more cautious with foreign markers, don't worry about that.

    I will however agree that in benelux we have an utter mess (and a lot of such nominations) of node markers for node networks. It even pains me to have to review them all the time. I get reviews from the UK, the netherlands, germany and france - and indeed 'benelux' seems to cover the region with the marker issues fairly closely.

    Upgrading (even the hexagonal, named) route markers seems to have bad results for me so far (1/5 on different routes). Which is a shame, because everything without an upgrades takes an eternity (sometimes over a year) to get a decision. So when you think you need to prove everything to a maximum, you link to the page for the instance that signposted the routes, or reference the route through Routeyou, and then get hammered over the URL in de additional info (while that's only meant to apply to the description).

  • Raachermannl-INGRaachermannl-ING Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭✭✭

    i never had a problem with URLs in the supporting information. so the reviewers of my region at least are able to deal with that .... my problem is more inappropriate location (and also due to a dumb Germany translation also sensitive location) and no safe pedestrian access ..... that are the most common reasons I get together with no criteria fulfilled 😅

  • Reddwarf4ever-PGOReddwarf4ever-PGO Posts: 3 ✭✭

    Fun having rejected a nomination for Private property, when on the foto you see it's in fron of a fence, next to a road and a streetlamp. Most of us have a streetlamp on our ground. And a thing that weights about a ton and is firmly built-in isn't permanent. I'd like to see someone trying to move it with bare hands. Really would like to. This system sucks.

  • Reddwarf4ever-PGOReddwarf4ever-PGO Posts: 3 ✭✭

    @Raachermannl-ING can say to you it would be nice if Germans write down their comments in english, but if they also LEARN english. I'm from Czech Republic and though I have some froblem with German language, I'll always try to understand and judge the nomination as whole. But having to write down my comments in four languages (English, German, Polish and Czech) really sucks. I'm not writing in Magyar, although it seems I'm under their review too. And all this hard work for rejecting.

  • Raachermannl-INGRaachermannl-ING Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I started submitting hiking trail markers back in 2018 ..... and had zero success initially. The success started with the english rule explanation as supporting text. So this style of supporting info solves two problems at once: the rule explanation, that is necessary for the bunch of dumb reviewers, undepending where they are from or whether tehy may understand the language. And then the second thing, that you can easily give the non-mothertongues all the information, they would have to google-search for, that is very hard in other languages.....

    So usually in Central Europe there should be no need for all possible languages. A schoolroom english should be given evrywhere.

  • c0bRa001-PGOc0bRa001-PGO Posts: 38 ✭✭

    So my next try will have this as additional information in english, while title and description will be german:

    Hiking related wayspots encourage players to move and exercise. So Hiking Trails (depicted by their markers) are great wayspots according to wayfarers criteria and are explicitly enumerated as good candidates under the big criterium „A great place for exercise“. This trail marker is for the hiking trail „Eisenpark-Weg“. The shortcut FWV is for the „Frankenwaldverein“, the local hiking association. Every marker(-post) has it‘s own unique emergency location number (=Standort) and a hint to the german emergency short call number „112“ in case you need (medical) help.

    Link: https://www.frankenwald-tourismus.de/de/touren/detail/596f6eb8975a4a5691482bb0

  • WikiBlue-INGWikiBlue-ING Posts: 73 ✭✭✭
    edited April 2021

    Rejected for including a hyperlink maybe? 😂 or because of a persons face in the picture? or no safe pedestrian access? #Just a guess. But all jokes a side, those 2 are clearly trailmarkers with the purpose of promoting exercise

  • c0bRa001-PGOc0bRa001-PGO Posts: 38 ✭✭

    So i resuggested 2 of the hiking trail markers... Now waiting...

  • c0bRa001-PGOc0bRa001-PGO Posts: 38 ✭✭
    edited April 2021

    Number one:

    REJECTED!

    Title: Wanderwegweiser Schiefersteig US 74 (Translation: hiking sign Schiefersteig US 74)

    Description: Standort 1867-8. Ein Rundwanderweg durch die Flur von Eisenbühl. Namensgebend für den Wanderweg ist der ehemalige bergmännische Schieferabbau. (Translation: Location 1867-8. A circular hiking trail through the landscape of Eisenbühl. The name of the hiking trail is derived from the former mining of slate.)

    Additional Information (was already in english): Hiking related wayspots encourage players to move and exercise. So Hiking Trails (depicted by their markers) are great wayspots according to wayfarers criteria and are explicitly enumerated as good candidates under the big criterium „A great place for exercise“. This trail marker is for the hiking trail „Schiefersteig US 74“. The shortcut FWV is for the „Frankenwaldverein“, the local hiking association. Every marker(-post) has it‘s own unique emergency location number (=Standort); here 1867-8; and a hint to the german emergency short call number „112“ in case you need (medical) help. Link to the hiking trail: https://www.frankenwald-tourismus.de/de/touren/detail/596f6ea0975a4a56914829d0

    Location: https://www.google.com/maps/@50.397162,11.752561,92m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=de

    Wayspot Picture:

    Surrounding Picture:

    @NianticGiffard It is really desperating... Can you please install some honeypots for hiking trail waysigns?

  • PkmnTrainerJ-INGPkmnTrainerJ-ING Posts: 5,131 Ambassador

    Your Supporting Information sounds like it’s influencing reviewers to vote a certain way. The rejection criteria says:

    Nominations with content that tries to sway and influence votes, such as dropping a codename or codewords in the title, description, or photo. Or making voting requests in the title, description, supporting information, or photo.

    Some reviewers may see your Supporting Information as a voting request and thusly reject.

  • c0bRa001-PGOc0bRa001-PGO Posts: 38 ✭✭

    I've tried it without the description why this is a possible good wayspot. It got rejected. It is only a hint to the November AMA where this was said:

    The new criteria lists hiking trails and biking trails as eligible examples under a great place for exercise. Are there any additional requirements for these locations to be eligible (e.g. survey markers, trail signs or other man-made objects)? Do they need to be named trails or paths?

    • While this criteria is much more inclusive than before, there would still need to be some sort of visual indicator of the Wayspot. This is because you're dropping a pin on the map and since trails are long and linear, you'd want to direct players to a safe location somewhere along that trail that's easy to find and safe to access. This would apply to trail markers, survey markers, trail signs, etc.

    and this is a trail marker for a named trail which is linked in the additional informations. Even when you google just "US 74", you will find the hiking trail above the US-Route 74. What else should i do??? Making a Youtube-video where i dance the name of the trail? for former instances of this trailmarker i got rejection reasons like: no safe footpath (to a hiking trail, sure!), living animal, etc... It's just wrong that it gets rejected 2 times... 3 times... 4 times... It's wasting upgrades, others say: don't use upgrades, so i must not evaluate or rate to get no more upgrades, which isn't the intetion behind the system, is it? One account for nominations and one for reviewing, to get no upgrades on your nominations and wait months till the voting is done? That can't be the intention...

  • HannesTheHammer-PGOHannesTheHammer-PGO Posts: 97 ✭✭✭

    On a side note: This trail marker is attached to a fence of what looks like a private residence. Wouldn't you agree that this renders your nomination ineligible?

  • c0bRa001-PGOc0bRa001-PGO Posts: 38 ✭✭
    edited April 2021

    where should it else be attached?

    on a pole in the center of the street?

    when you want to split hairs into half: it is attached on the outside of the fence which belongs to the public side of the fence (and so it is ~2,00 mm in front of the fence on public ground, the only thing on possible private area are the 16mm gear of the 20mm **** in the post of the fence) in addition with legitimation of the owner of the fence (which is in that case the local government itself, but that's only a sidenode). on the google overview you se that this fence has no private residential at all in it, only green.

    when you really want to claim that this is private residential, you can delete 99% of the existing wayspots, which are on the outside of residential buildings including every graffity, every statue of maria, nearly every wall scuplture...

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