St. Cloud Abuse Update 3: Tarpon Springs and continued abuse in St. Cloud.
Really wish I wasn’t reporting this issue again but despite Niantic taking action on 27+ accounts, the abuse hasn’t stopped, so here we are yet again. This post starts a little different, because yet again, the abuse has evolved.
About a month ago, a person who is known to have been behind a large portion of the St. Cloud abuse took a little vacation to the town of Tarpon Springs. The person then left this message in Ingress comms for everyone to see:
This was clearly a taunt, something along the lines of "Haha, I can still submit even though you reported me". Several days later, myself and other local reviewers began to notice several historical plaques coming through their review queues from Tarpon Springs, all with very suspicious descriptions. These descriptions in their entirety read “For all to enjoy”.
For the uninitiated, “for all to enjoy” has been a generic phrase used in a lot of the abusive submissions coming out of St. Cloud. We have thought for a while that it may be some sort of identifying phrase. In fact @grendelwulf-ING actually called it on my very first thread about St. Cloud without me even mentioning it, having identified it long before I ever found this abuse:
This is important because a few weeks later, one of these nominations would not only go on to get approved, but it was abusively moved out of downtown Tarpon Springs and into the middle of a nearby lake. The nomination then ended up in our wayspot showcase for two weeks:
https://intel.ingress.com/intel?ll=28.14613,-82.755431&z=17&pll=28.14613,-82.755431
Because it took some time to research the rest of the information contained in this update, someone else seemingly reported the lake portal and it has been moved back to it’s submitted location, however, I doubt the people responsible were held accountable and linked to the extensive history of the St. Cloud abuse, including the reviewers who moved the POI. Another one of these plaques was approved in it’s correct location (and also appeared in the showcase), and at least two other plaques were submitted and are currently unaccounted for.
Approved in correct location:
https://intel.ingress.com/intel?ll=28.146143,-82.755507&z=17&pll=28.146143,-82.755507
Unaccounted for:
The people behind these portals, and the portal being moved, need to be thoroughly investigated.
Abusive Portals in St. Cloud
And of course, if the abuse is going on outside of St. Cloud, I’m sure no one following the situation will be surprised to find out that it is still going on within St. Cloud. In addition to location abuse, there has also been a rise in wayspots being approved that blatantly do not meet criteria. Notably, an aerator fountain (in the middle of a lake) was recently approved, as well as two neighborhood signs (one of which is abusively located in someone’s driveway), a temporary statue, and a number of highly generic shopping plaza signs. While I am aware that plaza signs can potentially be eligible if they meet Niantic’s social criteria, the supplemental information included in these nominations used deceptive language to wrongfully tell reviewers that these are flat-out eligible nominations. I hope we can all agree that an Ace Hardware next to a Subway, or a Mattress Firm next to a lawyers office aren’t the type of eligible "plazas" that make a great place to be social. I would ask that in addition to resolving location abuse, that Niantic look to see if the reviews on these nominations appear genuine or not. I have a feeling people from St. Cloud are seeing nominations from their town and conspiring to give them perfect ratings regardless of their actual eligibility.
Below is yet another list of abusive portals:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mseEeG_kuPgJXTQDziqZnFR96hBy6Lsx2o9BUsLsSWs/edit?usp=sharing
Final Remarks
Fellow wayfarers: Please stay civil in the comments. If (or when) people from this area begin their regular habit of harassing me in the comments, drop them a disagree, flag their comment, and just move on please.
Niantic: Please ban these people for real this time. Maybe they will finally get the hint. Given that this is now the 5th post relating to the St. Cloud abuse ring, I feel like they have had plenty of warnings. Thanks, love ya.
Comments
I'm really wondering about Niantic's punishment system for abusers.
Are the punishments based on the number of reports made against a user, or on the severity of their actions?
Say a user has been creating fake wayspots for months, but their actions were only reported once. Will they only get a warning, because they only got reported once, or will they get a ban for displaying decidedly abusive behavior for a long time?
I know we'll never get an official answer to this, but cases like this really make me wonder about the effectiveness of Niantic's actions.
Either the punishments aren't working, or these abusers really have such a big number of alt accounts, that they can keep on going even after some of their users get banned.
Niantic seems to have dispensed punishments based on their percieved severity of peoples actions. Based on agent stats within Ingress, I can tell that at least one person had their reviewing privileges terminated (and were able to keep their ingress account), and that others had their Ingress accounts terminated entirely. But then others only got warnings and/or temporary suspensions.
They are using a "three-Strike-System"
First strike: general warn
Second strike: 30-90 days ban
Third strike: permanent ban
I see, thanks for the insight.
I gotta say I'm not too impressed by the termination of reviewing privileges as a punishment for abusive submissions (if that was the case). I mean, yes, the fact that there are users out there who purposefully accept abusive nominations is certainly bad, but it would barely be an issue if the source of it - the abusive nominations themselves - will be taken care of (that is, by revoking the submission privileges of abusive users). Hoping that wasn't exactly the case here.
I've heard of this before - which is why I don't like the idea of a long-time abuser only getting a one-strike or even two-strike punishment, only because their actions were only reported once or twice. I just hope the severity of the punishment is based on the severity (and length) or the abuse, rather than the number of reports. (And I'll continue to wonder, since I don't expect Niantic will ever clarify that, obviously.)
They aren't using a three strike system. Some people got their ban on the first offense.
It's honestly not the best system, but they are dependent on the players. Bot accounts or account only meant for abusing will get insta banned
St Cloud Abuse: The Motion Report
St Cloud Abuse 2: The Wrath of Trolls
St Cloud Abuse 3: The Search for Springs
Prediction: The 4th abuse thread will involve Sea World.
@GearGlider-ING I actually have several portals in voting at Sea World Orlando, you might be on to something 😂
Theres a Fake POI at the peak of Mount Everest. Just sayin^^
How can you tell?
I’m really confused now about shopping plazas. I thought they were acceptable I found this thread from November that to me gave the impression that they were ok
I know I’m guilt of submitting some, none have gotten approved. But they are mostly of local business (which is acceptable), allows peope to come together or bring peope together and explore.
I know this topic is about abuse but I just wanted to focus on that. This is so confusing at times
@LiveFreeorCatch-PGO The thread you are pointing to and the clarification within it directly refers to "a 5 floor shopping plaza with a lot of small shops inside".
This is a lot different than a bare bones striip mall, like the one I used as an example that is just a Subway and an Ace Hardware.
People need to look past the word plaza and look towards the criteria as a whole. Is the nomination a great place to be social? Did the nomination attempt to explain why it is a great place to be social?
There are certainly retail based plazas that could be eligible, personally I would be looking to see interesting shops and restaurants, (not mass/generic chains), and/or forms of entertainment such as a movie theatre, pool hall, bowling alley, karaoke bar, etc. The ones I pointed out in my list did not do any of that.
EDIT: I want to add that I absolutely agree that the entire situation regarding "plazas" is confusing, and that I hope Niantic will make a clarification on it in one of the many threads that have specifically asked about it.
Thank you @AisforAndis-ING form your response. I agree with that statement but according to @NianticGiffard shoppong plazas are acceptable. It is up to the submitter to then sell what makes it more acceptable according to the guidelines. I see someone from Niantic saying this is acceptable and then someone else saying no it is not.
because of that thread I was reviewing those more favorable because of that thread.
i also checked out the list a lot are legit. The Tomato plaza mural is a legit thing. I just can’t see how far off it is because for the game it looks legit. There’s is nothing on that plaza so moving it won’t cause too much of a stir Like I said I have been working really hard to make things right
the mallard park swings is a new one I just found out and yes that one is misplaced There is a park on goldeneye (great name and wish I lived on that street imagine when peope ask for your street address) that I was trying to submit and noticed that the swings were somewhere else. I reached out to peope that I know and what was told to me it wasn’t from anyone I know
you can always message me and I am willing to work together St Cloud is great place and I want to try my best to get the town on track again
How did you gather this? I dont think this is it at all... and i even saw screen shots of bans less than 30 days.
@LiveFreeorCatch-PGO I have no way to message you here and don't know for sure who you are off of here, so youll have to message me on Discord if you actually want legitimate help, I'm sure @Tagtheone-PGO @SCMsPacMonz-PGO and all the others can provide you my discord username. I'm happy to teach the proper ways of wayfarer and to help you straighten things out, as I have said before.
In regards to Tomato mural I put it on the list due to its location in that parking lot, its close proximity to Pyramid which is on the corner of same plaza, as well as due to the fact that the person who submitted it is known to have been involved with this abuse. I did check the interior photos for google maps for stores in that plaza and it didn't seem to line up with any of them. Not to say that you're lying, but you wouldn't be the first person to come on here and say that fake wayspots in St. Cloud are legitimate, so I will leave it up to Niantic to decide. If it is real and they do remove it I will be happy to walk you through the appeals process.
oh. I thought there was a way to get messages. I will ask them.
I have been in the restaurant so I know it there.
I don’t remember the pyramid so I have to remember where that one is
mallard pond is wrong and I called out to find out about that one I also submitted it in pogo for being wrong
I have also removed people from the group and called people out Some one kept posting a mailbox and hazard signs and I was like NO This is not acceptable a d you will get punished for abuse if you continue it
Well it's tough trying to be the get it right guy when you don't know the area and you are looking at outdated streetview and Google maps. @AisforAndis-ING should try accurately showing up in person so he can say for sure what is and isn't actually there
Ghost Stop exists in that plaza, however it was intentionally misplaced in the wrong cell. Had it been placed in the correct location, it not only would have been in an occupied PoGo cell, but it likely would hav3 been rejected for proximity due to the other portal in that plaza. But I think you know that already.
What I really don’t understand, why is no one questioning why there is even a mechanism in place that allows people to move nominations up to two miles? I think Niantic knows that their cell system won’t allow some poi to become pokestops so they put this mechanism in place. Why else would it be there?
Thanks for admitting to the abuse, while your at it list all your accounts and your accomplices please, just to make things easier.
First off, people have been repeatedly questioning why this is a thing, as well as why it takes so few people to move a POI.
Second off, I spent hours trying to document and prove the extent of this abuse, and you just hop on and admit to it openly? I literally don't even know what else to say... Thanks?
@NianticCasey-ING @NianticGiffard @NianticAtlas
Did you just dead up ask why would niantic have a feature that can easily be abused unless they want people to abuse it? Because it's a freaking oversight.
General things I heared from friends. Normally, I do get some material for the Fake reviews, they mostly also know the faker.
General knowledge. How high is tha ME?
@LiveFreeorCatch-PGO Regarding your question about shopping plazas, they are like restaurants in that they can qualify but most don't. They need to be special, unique, interesting in some way. A random **** mall would be an easy rejection, but if there was a shopping arcade that was all local artists and craftspeople selling their wares then that might qualify, and if it also had a courtyard where people hung out and local musicians performed on weekends then that would certainly qualify.
On a distance of 49m (160,761 feet) a difference of height of 25.025 feet (7627,62m) would be quite impossible. So one of the signs (the 4610 Ft one) will be maximally misplaced.
Just to clarify, nominating legitimate poi’s that YOU don’t think meets criteria, but clearly the rest of the community DOES think it meets criteria, is not abuse. It’s kind of ridiculous that you “reported” that. This is how Niantic has chosen to develop new wayspots. The community as a whole decides, not one vindictive person.
If a clearly faked POI which is in mid of a lake gets approved, I really ask myself what happened to wayfarer....