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If a Niantic mod says they're valid...who are you to say they aren't?😶
Niantic ALSO say we should reject anything that "Does not seem to be a great place of exploration, place for exercise, or place to be social. The object is mass-produced, generic, or not visually unique or interesting."
I've never seen a shopping plaza that would pass that test, which is why we need clarification.
Indoor malls are common destinations for people walking for exercise:
As others have pointed out, do not generalize an individual perspective for the use of a space to the wider public. An indoor mall is a multi-use space that is generally open to the public for more than just commerce.
how can people confuse this statement that parks and plazas are accepted ???
This seems to summarize it best to my understanding.
But we've already established that Plazas are, by definition, outdoors.
Not all plazas are out doors. As many towns especially in Canada have shopping plazas
Wouldn't that make it a Mall? We don't use the words mall or plaza here but itsn't the difference that a plaza is outdoor and a mall indoor? It seems like players are trying to stretch the word plaza to include any generic shopping centre (and also somehow exclude them from then need not to be generic businesses) when it's dictionary definition "An open square in ancient cities of the New World used as a focus for meetings and events" doesn't support that at all.
There's regional variety in what's a plaza or a mall. Colder climates will include enclosed shopping centers in the category of shopping plazas. Also note that it's not universal that a mall is enclosed since there are pedestrian malls, or the National Mall in Washington DC.
They gave the definition in earlier comments. Plaza has multiple meanings. By definition there needs to be more than one store if you read The comments by the niantic employee that would be what I would base my decision off of.
But yes the word mall and plaza I believe are similar
a large building or series of connected buildings containing a variety of retail stores and typically also restaurants.
to me the words are almost interchangeable and I’ve heard them used to describe both malls and plazas. The only difference I see when its called one or the other is what ever the company makes the name for the mall.
"needs to be more than one store"? Surely shops are not required at all? I think this fits the first definition of "a public square, marketplace, or similar open space in a built-up area." despite the surrounding buildings being office blocks:
When evaluating a lot of things, I ask myself if this is something that I want to tell people from out of town about. If it's your typical **** mall, meh, no. I rarely vote up shopping centers or stores unless there's something unique about it. The other day I voted up a building that contained studios of various local artists and craftsman. I'd want to check that out if I visited. As I would an older locally owned hardware store, general store, or bakery, particularly if someone could point me to an article about it that demonstrated it's uniqueness.
Hopefully we can get more clarification on the questions & comments above & someone from Niantic explains further. @NianticGiffard
I Mught be wrong but werent shopping centers (malls, im British, we call them shopping centers) also acceptable as places to congregate, explore etc.?
The consensus in the UK used to be that shopping centres were themselves generic businesses (one is pretty much like another) and should therefore be rejected (or better, some piece of art/architecture within them should be nominated rather than the entire place) , which is why we need clarification from Niantic to tell us if this has changed.
This is so confusing. @NianticGiffard clearly stated that shopping plazas are Acceptable. It is up to the submitter to prove how it follows the guidelines of socialization, exercise, explore and so on
almost every post after is people stating why it’s not acceptable.
Im sorry but they just said it was. Why the back and forth?
I wish it was as easy as just accepting them all. I think people are worried because some shouldn’t be eligible but that is where the answer lies. If they don’t look to meet criteria at all, then don’t accept them. If they do & have areas where people can socialize &/or exercise etc... Then they should probably be accepted as a great POI. I think that’s the main thing. People are thinking too much into it. These need to start getting accepted if there are areas to explore & socialize or even exercise. Especially if there are multiple places where someone visiting should explore. A POI would be on the map & therefore by them clicking on it would be further visible to them & give them more of an opportunity to learn more about this particular society
I don’t know if @NianticGiffard meant ALL shopping plazas are eligible with their comment. I think they were referring to the 5 story shopping plaza, that really sounds more like an outdoor mall, that was referenced in the original post.
I’m sorry @Stephyypooke-ING it does not match to what the moderator posted. The moderator used the world “should”. And then clarified that the submitter would need to provide detail how it applies to the guidelines. Anything else is adding your own opinion of what one would prefer.
Why did you Google “should vs shall”? I didn’t say shall in my remark, maybe you misread when I said all?
Anywhoo, @NianticGiffard begins their response by acknowledging the OP’s interesting question which is why I believe they were referring to that example.
We only have maybe three shopping plazas that I feel could meet this criteria where I live because of the exercise clubs and local hotspots located within them. Luckily, they are already filled with pois because all of the eligible things inside and therefore, they would be marked a dupe if I were to submit.
I never stated that you said “should”. However you did state that they were referring to 5 story shopping plazas and no where did @NianticGiffard say the nomination needed to be 5 stories
What is does say that Shopping Plazas SHOULD be elegible and SHOULD have multiple shops and stores. Provided they follow the third paragraph. That is black and white to me.
I did not intend to imply that I thought Giffard was stating shopping centers had to be 5 stories to be eligible. I meant that is the type of nomination they had in their head when answering the question.
I do not think they intended for this statement to enable wayfinders to submit standard shopping centers with an Office Depot and a Hobby Lobby with a supplemental saying “Niantic stated shopping plazas are eligible”.
Again we keep putting qualifiers into it. The statement says
Shopping plazas SHOULD be eligible AND SHOULD have multiple shops and stores.
“Provided” they follow the third paragraph ie wayfarer criteria eligibility
So a plaza with an anchor stores that you mention would not disqualify it. However if it is the sole store, all generic businesses/chains , does not fall in line of socialize, explore and exercise then yes. It would and should be denied.
Its a change of thinking and I know it’s hard but to me that is black an white. I don’t understand why we as the reviewer have to put so many qualifiers onto something. This made my reviewing process a little more easier and sounded like you could have added three more spots in your area (I know you said the area is already have POIs). This could help a lot of rural or suburbs peope.
I am talking about plazas with only these generic stores and maybe a dentist (or some variation) that people are submitting. No local hotspots inside of the plaza.
I would not have been able to add three pois to the games because per Giffard’s original post, the plaza sign should be duped against the already accepted pois in the plaza.
The plaza (if the correct type of plaza) is basically eligible as an extension of what is inside the plaza. Say for example, there is an award winning Greek restaurant inside the plaza and that is why you feel it is eligible, you could submit the restaurant itself or the plaza, not both. Unless the sign itself was wonderfully artistic and eligible on its own.
Basically, what is inside the plaza should matter but I have reviewed countless submissions where there is nothing promoting exercise, exploration, or socialization in the plaza yet submitters are still saying it does encourage those things and “Niantic says plazas are eligible now”.
I read your post
1st paragraph I agree. It’s what I said in my 3rd paragraph
2nd paragraph I agree. I put in parentheses that I acknowledge it
3rd paragraph I ageee in part but see where you are coming from and acknowledge it. I think it’s another topic
4th paragraph I agree. And that is what @NianticGiffard says in his third paragraph. I would not review favorably
Hi @NianticGiffard sorry to bug you, again.
Would you mind weighing in one last time on this clarification? Did you mean to say that plazas are now considered categorically eligible and are always to be accepted, or do you mean that they should be reviewed for how they meet criteria as a place to be social with others? Should a generic "str!p" mall that is only a series of merchandise stores be accepted?
Much appreciated, as this clarification has been misused by not just the current debate but by another long term abuser.
Not a problem, I'll be glad to clarify! They should be evaluated based on the criteria "a place to be social with others".
Secondly, a Wayspot should always be connected to an object. Just five shops in a row are not eligible but if there is an information board for the str!p mall, they can be accepted.
Thank you for this. With regards to submitting a nomination for one of these plazas / squares / concreted areas called "gardens" between office blocks and the like (not a shopping mall with the name "Plaza" in the title), would these areas need some sort of "Anchor Waypoint" as is already recommended for submissions for things like Parks or Community Gardens?
i am surprised that this needed clarification. shopping plazas/shopping malls are a great place to be social and we, in my country, already "anchor" them to their name signs.
glad for the reinforcement.
Thank you @NianticGiffard for the clarification. I agree with you too. Keep up the great work
I'd be happy to give the OK to a nomination with an "anchor point" as you describe. My question was perhaps more aimed at those subs where we just get a photo of some area of paving or tarmac between some buildings labelled a "Plaza".
If we cannot expect a "park" nomination to be accepted if it is just a picture of some grass and trees, surely something similar should be applied to something labelled as a "plaza". Hence my original question, should we have some sort of "anchor point" for a "plaza".