Pokestop refusé

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  • AgentB0ss-INGAgentB0ss-ING Posts: 555 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Google would like to say that a watermark can be any superimposed image, logo, or text placed over a photograph. Which a date/time or the type of phone would be a superimposed text interesting. The next result asks how can you tell if a photo has been watermarked. Well it says USUALLY its in the bottom right corner, this case is the left corner but that still applies. It doesn't say it has to be EVERYWHERE all over a photo. So even forgetting what Niantic says in the AMA, the current guidance about watermark still stands. A Date/Time Stamp on a photo is a WATERMARK Per multiple Google Sources.



  • Oakes1923-PGOOakes1923-PGO Posts: 419 ✭✭✭✭

    Uconomix (a digital media protection compnay) A watermark is a kind of mark or a symbol embedded in an object to identity its ownership or its authenticity.

    Dropbox (cloudbased file storage and digital security company) Watermarking is the process of superimposing a logo or piece of text atop a document or image file, and it’s an important process when it comes to both the copyright protection and marketing of digital works.

    Expert Photography (supports online classes and resources for professional photographers) Watermarking your photos helps protect them against copyright infringement.

    A date and time stamp are a date and time stamp. If you asked a graphic designer to add a watermark to your photo and they slapped a date and time stamp on it and sent you an invoice... don't pay it, it's not watermarked.

  • flatmatt-PGOflatmatt-PGO Posts: 2,141 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just because watermarks are commonly used for theft protection does not mean that that is the only thing that can be considered a watermark. One of your sources even outright supports our argument, but you only highlighted the part that you wanted:

    Dropbox (cloudbased file storage and digital security company) Watermarking is the process of superimposing a logo or piece of text atop a document or image file, and it’s an important process when it comes to both the copyright protection and marketing of digital works.


    If I asked a graphic designer to "add a watermark to my photo," I would hope they would ask for clarification, as such a request would be incredibly vague!

  • AgentB0ss-INGAgentB0ss-ING Posts: 555 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You're post does nothing to refute mine at all. There are different uses for watermarks and differing definitions based on usage. Water marks were originally just on paper so you could hold it to a light and see the markings, that has evolved into a new meaning too.

    So while if a graphic designer or photographer were to water mark a photo it could be the entire photo, could be a logo in the corner. Absolutely those would be water marks. A Date/Time Stamp by a phone taking a photo is a water mark by the phone onto the photo. There is a difference sure but the overall concept in the same. Stop trying to argue a pointless point to try to feel superior for some reason to others. Every other person on here is stating its considered a water mark, what makes you an expert on the subject?

    I used to do professional photography and had my own watermark I added to photos and yet I still believe a date and time stamp would be considered a watermark.

  • WheelTrekker-INGWheelTrekker-ING Posts: 3,388 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I showed how the manufacturer of the phone calls that "feature": Watermark. So if you tell one of those persons to turn off the watermark in their phone it turns out that they just can type "Watermark" in the settings of their phone and they'll have right there the option to disable this setting. As simple as that.

    On the other hand, I think that most of us don't understand what you're trying to accomplish with your posts. Do you want to submit photos that way? I don't think so, so I don't know why you're arguing about how that text is called.

    You're focusing only on the definition of watermark that fits your goals (whatever they are), ignoring other common usages. Even in the text that you copied from Dropbox it should be clear: "Watermarking is the process of superimposing a logo or piece of text atop a document or image file".

    At the end of the day the intention of the guideline is to release Niantic from any copyright infringement issues.

    Maybe here lies the problem. You are claiming that this guideline has one goal, but maybe that's not correct, maybe they want good photos without anything that degrades its quality, is it so hard to imagine that?

    Let's imagine that a date stamp is not a watermark, when does a text over the photo become a watermark? can it include the gps data? phone model? how big can it be? where can it be placed? That would be terrible to define and there's a simple solution: follow the advice provided previously and reject any photo with any text placed over it. You can call it what you want, just reject that photo and move on.

  • Oakes1923-PGOOakes1923-PGO Posts: 419 ✭✭✭✭

    We can play the "what if" game all day long I prefer to play the "what is" because that's the issue and the information on hand. If you can show me a picture with a date and time stamp that covers the entire picture then by all means reject it. You and I both know they are fairly uniform and for most players will never show up in game and have no bearing, positive or negative, on gameplay.

    Regarding your doubt of why Niantic has this criteria, specifically writing how it relates to copyrighted/3rd party images let me offer this rational. For all intents and purposes Wayfarer is a database. Niantic as the IP of said database is subject to all the same copyright laws that any publishing company, like say an Elsevier, would be subject too. If their users are submitting copyrighted content and then Niantic is publishing that content the user isn't breaking copyright, Niantic is. However, stating rules and guidelines counter to this practice for users to follow frees them of that responsibility and any legal entanglements it may run into. they can simply point to their guidelines page. If you think there is any other purpose for Niantic to create guidelines to dissuade its user population from using copyrighted images or other protected material you are not living in reality. So why is the germane to this argument? Well a date and time stamp do not offer any sort of copyright protection (pssst... because they aren't watermarks) ergo facto the rejection rational is invalid and outdated.

    As I've posted before my point in addressing this isn't about me, it doesn't effect me. But the larger issue does. There is a large population on these forums of very well intentioned and likely consistent reviewers that continue to hold to old outdated and arbitrary standards that simply no longer exist. This is just the latest example. Rejecting popular restaurants because the building they are in is a generic object, rejecting POI's in a field because they don't have a walking path, rejecting a local coffee shop because it didn't get a michelin star... Should I go on?

    The point is, use the standards that are given. There are multiple places on the wayfarer site that tell you that. Folks decide to instead cling on to an old AMA hosted in google docs. Let go of those that are not relevant anymore; and if confusion continues, let Niantic release an new AMA that addresses it. Use common sense and review with a forgiving eye and this process is much simpler. Ya'll make this harder then it needs to be.

  • WheelTrekker-INGWheelTrekker-ING Posts: 3,388 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You can call me crazy if you want, but the protection against copyrighted photos is covered this way:

    If you want to argue against people that use old criteria then go ahead, but the fact is that there hasn't been any statement that anything about what is a watermark has changed, there's a rejection reason marked Watermark, and so far Niantic has always acted against all types of watermarks when reported, so it would be better to talk specifically about those cases where people don't follow the new criteria instead of talking about something that hasn't changed.

  • Oakes1923-PGOOakes1923-PGO Posts: 419 ✭✭✭✭

    You can have a third party photo without having a watermark. I see the use case for both. In my opinion they both need to be there.

    Valid point regarding Niantic but that a different argument and one that I have already addressed. They haven't come out with additional guidance when pressed, simply acted on posts to appease the crowds at times. If they don't come out with additional guidance we should be using the guidance given is my point.

  • sogNinjaman-INGsogNinjaman-ING Posts: 3,313 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @NianticCasey-ING , @NianticGiffard

    Gents, once again this "Watermark" discussion has reappeared and is rumbling back and forth with the same arguments for and against being employed. Lots of hot air and time being wasted.

    Would it be possible to have a simple answer to this question please?

    For the purposes of a submission review, does a "watermark", ie any time, date, camera make, camera model or any other text added onto the photo by a phone or camera taking the photo make the photo ineligible? A "Yes" or "No" anwer be appreciated.

    Thanks.

  • Gendgi-PGOGendgi-PGO Posts: 3,534 Ambassador

    Atlas halfway addressed it without being explicit in this thread https://community.wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/discussion/14035/youtube-guy-supports-watermark

    Unfortunately, even if this one person becomes convinced it will still not meet all audiences. Knowing Niantic's latest response, they'll probably issue 30 day bans to anyone caught approving them rather than actually clarify the guidelines.

    Remember that time Casey said education was a top priority? I'd sure hate to see what kind of raises the Wayfarer team got this year.

  • Oakes1923-PGOOakes1923-PGO Posts: 419 ✭✭✭✭

    Its really any easy fix. Add language to the criteria page that encompasses everything that is disallowed.

    For instance

    • Copyrighted photos (e.g. watermarked stock photos), or photos that contain date and time stamp or other overlaid text or symbols.

    I work in medical publishing so this is in my DNA. Be direct yet explicit is the standard when you are publishing contain with lives literally on the line. There is no room for ambiguity. Most wayfarer users will not venture into these forums to learn subtle ins and outs of the process and criteria updates. If you want the community at large to be using the same standard and to use the provided support pages to understand proper application of criteria then that is where information should live.

    The simple truth is the accepted standard (outside of this forums) for watermarks does not include date and time stamps. Why we should have this vailed definition that only a small subset of the user base would understand (if Niantic ever actually decided to spell out in detail) is not helpful.

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