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I like to underline every word written here!
I disagree that reviewers cannot learn from their mistake because they can only guess what they did wrong. Niantic has stated in this thread and the bug thread what the reason for the ban was and one of the effected users confirmed reviewing similar edits and choosing the “fake portal” option. Reviewers should now understand if they see one of these edits they should choose the correct text or none of the above, do not choose “this is a fake portal”, even if it is fake.
However, Niantic absolutely could have communicated this better by including their statement on the original email.
I do agree these bans are harsh when one considers Niantic’s seemingly light touch with much stronger abuse cases. Their priorities seem a bit skewed to me.
The submitters are the customers to Niantic... and the reviewers are the co-workers. If a customer makes a mistake the co-worker needs to try and solve it.... But if the co-worker makes a mistake he gets fired or blaimed.
I can’t remember that i ever chose this “fake portal” option in any case cause it seemed sketchy. So with still absolutely zero concrete examples what i have done wrong, i just have to quit reviewing. Never ever i think about risking my pogo account for this nonsense... it is simply not worth it for me anymore, cause i can never be sure of making no mistakes. Maybe Niantic should employ someone and then ban this guy every time he does a mistake :)
Schraub Wayfarer, as long as noone is willing to tell us what might be wrong, I no longer am participating. Its not like Im a big loss, though the efforts in keeping a sufficient standard in terms of portals have turned out to be pathetic.
I'm beginning to feel the same, and feel bad for all the hard-working reviewers hit by this draconian 30-day ban. We already see scores of willing reviewers turned away by the two-misses-you're-out-and-yet-we'll-never-improve-tutorials initial test, a broken Abuse Reporting system, massive burnout and reviewer attrition resulting from the sheer fatigue resulting from a flood of poor submissions from untutored submitters, lack of incentive to review as Upgrades take longer and longer to earn due to the factors listed, and a lot of indignation about the thousands and thousands of unreviewed waypoints slammed through without warning and now requiring manual reviewer intervention to "fix" down to the Photo level. There's too much emphasis on enabling more submitters and submissions, and not enough emphasis on reviewer retention and recruitment.
you are beginning to feel the same? we are already there, since many moons.
I'm wondering how many people may actually believe somebody from Niantic reviews all nominations and edits and thus that is the reason why a certain user (or users) edited the Wayspots to something to the effect of "this is a fake". It may indeed be the case that some people really do not realise that other game players actually review nominations. Plenty of players who can nominate Wayspots are not part of a community of players (either by chance or their own choice) and thus may never interact with other players (outside of in-game actions), remembering of course that Pokémon GO does not have an in-game chat.
The overwhelming majority of people I know who have nominated Wayspots (and requested edits) have never thought to go onto the Wayfarer website (and may not even know it even exists), let alone these forums. If a user's only experience of being a Wayfarer is from within the Niantic game, then I can definitely see why a lot of users may end up being confused and make unintentional mistakes. When a Pokéstop is nominated the information given to that player is rather limited.
My local community has hundreds of players and yet I can count on one hand the those who regularly nominate Wayspots, and even less people think to review Wayspots (so out of a community of hundreds of players, only one or two regularly review). If somebody is a super casual Wayfarer (like seemingly 99% of users are), I can see why they would make mistakes which regular users of this forum would view as silly. Most people on this forum - I would assume - are very clued on the guidelines so we have a tendency to view things from that lens.
e.g. we may be wearing red-tinted glasses and not appreciate what somebody who always wears green-tinted glasses sees in the world. Whilst the users who got the bans may well be "in the wrong", there needed to be leniency. I speak to a lot of people about Wayspot nomination and try to inform them about the guidance but genuine ignorance does persist.
I will reiterate what others have said, in that communication from Niantic really does need a lot of improvement, but until another company rises up to challenge Niantic for a "gamified POI database", Niantic will keep being complacent and taking users for granted. I love Pokémon GO and want it to succeed, however Niantic keeps doing things which annoy myself (and others). It really is tiring.
read up, you were already told what you did wrong.
That doesn't explain why reviewers, who are supposed to be familiar with guidelines, chose the invalid edit. There is a photo example with this exact case in the help section in Wayfarer.
From what I can see, the reviewing side of things has been discussed extensively on previous pages. I agree with those who said the guidelines could be a lot more unambiguous and contain a lot more information to help users. I would not have banned the reviewers for using their best judgement, as it was not their intention to be malicious. I would encourage them to make more informed choices in the future and trust it doesn't happen again. Niantic are wrong in this case, as others have said.
Point is reviewers were incorrectly reviewing, a clear example is in the guidelines. We may not agree with their punishment but we can't say its wrong. Maybe they could and should do things differently, but I won't say they are wrong here.
And I will - they're handing out a punishment for collusion when no proof of collusion exists. Even in the most glaring example, punishing for historical and honest oversights without taking into account the growth of the reviewer just astonishes me. We've made it known that documentation and clarity are two areas of improvement to focus on for Wayfarer and that includes review instructions as well as submission instructions, yet they punish so harshly for not following the convoluted rules in the past? Why was no warning given? Why 30 days? Why threaten their game accounts as a first measure of correction?
As for those of us not hit with this suspension: fewer reviewers means slower agreements and upgrades. Our submissions sit In Queue or In Voting longer. Those suspended submitters may not return after 30 days, so until a new crop of untutored reviewers take their place, they will be missed. I find myself looking at many edits now where the portal name has changed, and I wonder whether my choice will get me banned. If there's a church with two choices "Church of A" and "Church of B" and the photo shows B in the sign but street view/Google maps from two years ago shows A, what title is most in keeping with Niantic's guidelines?
Since there's no evidence of intentional cheating in this case, unlike many in-game actions, and considering our volunteer status as reviewers, these notices should have followed a modified three-strike policy: first, a warning, explaining what triggered the flag or better yet pointing to a specific violated guideline. Then, the standard Niantic three-strike: short suspension, longer suspension, then termination. There are people from these boards that went straight to strike two for actions in good faith performed months ago. It's unjust.
We dont know they wernt getting warnings, cool downs captchas etc. Those are perfect times to review the guidelines. Everyone, including the people in this threat always say "i got a cooldown and i review by the guidelines" but they dont even look at them, if they did they would have known what they did wrong, since their is a clear example of what they did wrong in there. Its always just complaining and not learning what they did wrong. Take these 30 days and review the criteria. Your example of edits is in no way the same as what happened, without evidence its just a judgment call, their mistake was not, it was a choice against criteria.
I never got a warning before. i also never got a cooldown before. I was just hit without warning with this harsh strafe. Yes, I will not continue on wayfarer when my 30 days are over.
i don’t think unintentionally doing a wrong choice was the main problem.
The main problem is that niantic insinuates that we are intentionally trying to illegally circumvent the evaluation process in a group. But I never did that. I just rated like everyone else. I also don't believe that there is really any evidence, just clues that maybe point to it. maybe i may just have the wrong friends on my friends list, but I cannot know. I don't know 50% of my friends, I only found them through local telegram groups to level EP. We were just sentenced by niantic without giving us a chance to defend ourselves. To be hit so hard right away is a shame. There is a big imbalance here between the punishment in Wayfarer as an addon and the 3 strike politic in the games.
Well, I can speak only for myself but I never get any warning and also not a short period cool down before the ban. As everyone else I received the "suspension" at the same time on the same Monday (?) evening with an email. But that was stated before several times here.
I am not mad at all if you say -> "those are perfect times to review the guidelines", however it was funny that I clicked on the provided link here in the forum and are not allowed to read the criteria, since I can't sign in in my account and have a look on it. However in the meanwhile I found another URL and I read every criteria again. Also thank you for posting the screenshot for trying to "help us" what the foul might have been. Thats was more helpful than any other official response on my mail. You always can learn and improve.
But here is the "funny" part => There is no confirmation, that voting for "this is fake" was a case of my ban. I also don't believe that I ever would have voted for such a thing, and surely not multiple times as the official statement told us. But can I prove it? Would I bet my house (OK - I don't own a house... ;-) ) on it after so much reviews? Surely not.
It was only an idea from a user and not a official statement. @NianticGiffard replied to this user and told him what to do in this situation. After that he also replied to another user that in his case, that was the case.
I want to ask you something Roli112 (and everyone) and please try to put yourself in my shoes and read my whole text:
I reviewed a lot in the last months and have a total of around 10.000 reviews (I don't know the number because I can't sing in). I never get a warning, I always was in the best possible rating. Honestly I always tried my best to review (helping with Google Translation, Street Maps, Street View, Internet recherche...) and the Wayfarer-system feedback I have received told me again and again, that I am a great reviewer. Surely, I admit that, I might did some mistakes on my first 100 reviews as a greenhorn.
And now suddenly I receive a suspension or let's call it a strike. I think it is important in this case that we say it is a suspension and not a "cooldown". If it would be only a cooldown I would be totally fine with it. But they wrote me the mail with the title "Your Pokemon Go Account" and a warning to ban me forever (in the game). Yeah, I was shocked and in the first moment. Can you blame me?
Niantic provided me an email without any helpful information and the second email (after I asked what I did wrong) also wasn't helfpul to understand my case better. They even cut the text accidentaly and stated a suggestion which did not really have anything to do with the violation. But thats only a side note.
I want to ask you Roli, do you really remember every single review out of more than 10.000 in the last year? I can't. There are even multiple user who stated, that they did not review since months or even a year. How should they know what they did wrong? What should they learn?
What would you do Roli112 in my/our case? Would you ever review again in my shoes? What if my next 15.000 reviews are totally fine and they'll find again one or two "mistake" of mine in the huge backlog? Why should I risk it? Why do they call me to be part of I quote "intentional abuse cases we will take strict action even if the account has no prior violations" when this is not the case in my case? It's an insult to me, isn't it? Be honest.
After spending so much time to help to make the system better I really don't think I asking too much to give me a proper answer in the first place. Or at least in the second place after I have asked for advice. If Niantic has the opinion that one or two bad reviews against their criteria (out of 10.000) is enough for a 30-day-ban -> We can deal with that. But threating someone to lose the account because their system marked us automatically as intentional abusers? If you are 100% honest @Roli112-PGO , you know I must defend myself.
Honestly this is the best response/reaction/feedback i have read so far... everything else has been saying nothing bad was done and blaming Niantic, its fair to want answers and a better system, but not at the cost of saying you didnt nothing wrong or that Niantic is wrong. I think its easier to move on or even get answers when you admit that you did in fact did something wrong instead of just being in denial or playing victim.
I don't mean to offend anyone, but when I see situations like this I have to make best guesses about the honesty of the people complaining. Sometimes people are being 100% truthful. Sometimes they are being disingenuous with their statements, pretending that they made an innocent mistaken when in actuality they knew full well what they were doing. My intuition tells me that most or all of the people in this discussion are being truthful in their statements, and that they fell into a trap rather than acting with bad intent.
There's one question that I really want the answer to: Were the things that the suspended players selected blatantly obvious fakes? I would hope the answer to this question is unequivocal yes, but given the number of players impacted and my assessment above I suspect it isn't.
In PoGo there is now ( it was not always the case) a very clear sequence of sanctions in place. If you are found to break the rules it up is clear that you have warning stages before an outright ban. They also have had instances of false positives cropping up.
I am unaware of what the sequence is in Wayfarer. Do we know if a strike stays there forever or Does there come a point when it resets?
I think this is important.
it has just been cited that captchas and cooldowns etc should be considered as part of that system. I presume a rating dropping to poor would be part of a system?
The problem is none of us know what might trigger any of these in absolute terms. There are lots of suspicions and speculation but they are all guesses.
For example it is thought that a sequence of 1* or repeated scoring might trigger a captcha or cooldown as part of an automatic system. But none of us have any control over what we are offered and it is actually not that unusual to get a sequence of very similar types of nominations which not unexpectedly gets a series of very similar ratings.
Added to this that the very nature of what we are doing is about judgement about some elements that are absolutes and other elements that are very subjective none of us are going to be perfect. People often cite an overall agreement rate of 60-70% as very good. We (quite rightly) have no say in who we are agreeing with but essentially it is out of our control.
Looking at this whole picture I find it worrying that something could threaten my playing account which is the doorway to volunteer work in wayfarer, where so much could go wrong that I’m not doing with a deliberate malicious intent.
We are volunteers, we should be cared for not treated as a disposable item that can be readily replaced.
Reading all this, I feel sorry for the folks who genuinely don't know exactly what they did wrong. At the same time, I'm not surprised - it's pretty much how Niantic rolls. For instance, I got banned in Ingress without a warning or strike of any sort - straight to account termination and appeals only ever met silence or got auto replies. To this day I still have no idea what I did wrong, I was so legit I didn't even use IITC. I can only guess someone reported me because I like going out to remote places, but all Niantic had to do was look at my Wayfarer history to see that 80% of my submissions were trail markers. 😕
Good luck getting a straight answer.
Exactly this. I'm not saying Niantic's reaction is good here. It's not. I think this offense would have been much better addressed by issuing a warning, such a ban is way too harsh in my opinion. Also, the situation could have been handled much better by addressing the question much faster.
However, I must also say that I feel a lot of people here are also acting in an unreasonable manner.
It's perfectly clear that Niantic does not want to - and will not - give specifics about the exact nominations in question. That's because such information could be used by actual, deliberate cheaters to gain knowledge about things (review distribution, timelines, etc) they don't want them to know. Cheating is already rampant in Wayfarer and there clearly are groups who have figured out the system and use it for deliberate and blatant abuse (see the St. Cloud situation), Niantic clearly doesn't want to make this information even more accessible. And I agree with their position on this one.
There is also the repeated claim of "I don't know what I did wrong". @NianticGiffard repeatedly clarified what the issue was. I'm sorry but I have to say that if you read all that properly and still don't understand, you either don't know how edit reviews work or you're deliberately playing d*mb.
About the "I'm certain I never did anything wrong and i'm innocently punished" crowd: I myself wouldn't sure that I didn't accidentally make a mistake like that, because it happend that you just slip up and stop focusing on reviews. People make mistakes. Also, there is evidence that these particular abusive edits happened months, if not years ago, and I don't even remember what I reviewed yesterday. What I'm trying to say is that I find it disingenuous when people claim with a complete certainty that they never ever made any such error like that. Now, again: I don't agree with the severity of the punishment, I think a warning would have been entirely enough for most reviewers who made this mistake. (And before someone suggests that Niantic is flat out lying and framing innocent people for something they didn't do - I don't see any motive whatsoever to do this, and it seems completely against how Niantic normally operates, so I'm not even considering this option.)
Niantic is attempting to use a million monkeys to create the complete works of Shakespeare. Some of their employees occasionally throw us some carrots, some of them hit us with a stick. They don’t really want to spend much time or effort on us, as we are individually disposable.
I don’t think Niantic ever explained the edit-evaluation system. They certainly didn’t publish a specification or send an email to Wayfarers explaining how or why they should be done a certain way.
I don’t doubt there are some bad monkeys out there, but I can understand if some of the reviewers on this forum feel confident that they were not part of a cabal trying to cheat Niantic or game the system, even though they cannot possibly remember each and every goofy title edit that passed before their eyes.
If Niantic’s forensic tools are of the same caliber as the rest of their resources, who knows how many innocent, marginal, coincidental, or tangential actors may have been caught up in the web?
this is getting ridiculous. you ban people for doing something to get your attention. you say do report abuse by the form or in review. ok, im in fear, im trying to do in right way, i fill the abuse from review on May 17 and what i see? i just have lost my upgrade point. the new portal appears today on May 19 with title: Smurfai sportuoja (Smurfs sports) description: Smurfiukai pasistatė mėlyną sporto aikštelę (The Smurfs built a blue sports field)
how can you ban people if you don't stick to the rules yourself? if your system even cant auto reject the text by such hyped banned words? and should i appeal the portal? let it burn with a blue flame, i dont care.
Now that almost 2.5 weeks have passed since Niantic took a stand, I honestly have to say:
How should this continue when my account is free again in the Wayfarer to vote?
To this day I have not received a correct answer to my question and others have not received a correct answer either.
Sorry, but as I said, Niantic reads silently and does nothing except , out strange bot generiete messages.
It can absolutely not be true that you have not been able to give a correct answer to me or others until today, let alone what was done wrong, which is why we received the ban.
6700 views speak for themselves with this post and Niantic has only taken a short position and can not say exactly what is going on ..
Sorry, but if I have problems or something else I try to eliminate them or try to give help that was done wrong so that it doesn't happen again the next time.
From my side, I am very disappointed with the support to this day and will not invest a cent more in any game for Niantic in the near future, let alone think about passing the time differently.
Niantic is a very big company but doesn't really go into what players are saying. Let's put it so negative criticism you don't like to see it. It should help for you and for us so that we can better understand things together and learn from them.
Like in school, you had to fight for grades and asked the teachers and then you did better ...
But with bans you achieve that players will soon turn away and no longer play your games. Without proper announcement why the ban was and without correct wording to players.
If you have a German support then it should get active and participate.
We can all understand English so far but the way some of you express yourself is on the one hand a riddle on the other hand players have to decipher what is meant.
I just ask to finally have a correct position on my ban as other players have received it with a correct reason.
It really can't be that difficult:
If there is a bug in the system then tell us honestly.
What do you mean you "lost your upgrade point"? Also, I don't really see any banned word there... Is "smurf" a pejorative in Finnish? This title does seem weird but without seeing the nomination itself, it's hard to say anything conclusive.
"Smurf" can be taken as a game reference to Resistance, the blue Ingress team.
Oh, I see. If the sports field is not actually blue, I'd definitely try to edit the title and description.
read back please, they told you what you did wrong, and what you should have done.
I've just received a very similar message of a 30 days suspension:
"AlvynJune 02, 2021, 06:40 +0000Hello Agent,
We have confirmed that you had previously tried to influence other reviewers to vote on your nominations in a specific way. As a result of this violation, your Wayfarer account has been suspended for 30 days.
We recommend you review the Portal Criteria (https://niantic.helpshift.com/a/ingress/?p=web&s=portal-network) before submitting any more nominations or edits and avoid using any unrelated information/codewords in your submissions. Note that any further violations can lead to the permanent suspension of your Wayfarer and your Ingress account.
My surprise receiving this totally unexpected message makes me write this message asking why?
Any explanation could help me to understand this drastic and unexpected measure that threatens me from contiously reviewing wayfarer and participating in events, such as the recent India event.
Until any further clarification or explanation I will unwillingly stop my wayfarer activity.
Thanks in advance for reading and answering to my request if able.
Your mail doesn't fit the mail, that lots of people in this thread got. Their mail states, that they reviewed something wrong.
But I got the same mail like you a few day ago, and I was totally confused about it, too. Although the mail states in the first paragraph, that the nomination would be the problem, Niantic told me in that thread, that supporting edits for other edits are the problem.....
So maybe you should better check out this thread: