Prison
WayfarerMSE-PGO
Posts: 1,592 ✭✭✭✭✭
Before you all start to comment diligently: I only had the discussion yesterday in a different group and opinions differed widely. I do not intend to discuss this again, but I would like some clarification from Niantic.
Even if new wayspots there should be rejected with 1 *, old wayspots were allowed in military areas and are grandfathered as long as they do not hinder operations. Because soldiers have access, an example: a church on military grounds.
A wayspot on hospital premises is also permitted as long as it does not interfere with emergency services.
Niantic clearly states that wayspots do not have to be publicly accessible and that it is sufficient if a certain group of people, such as employees, have access.
So far so good, right?
But now I have an absurd example and I would like an official clarification and not wild theories. As I said, I had the discussion yesterday.
Every now and then a few fellow players had sports fields to evaluate - in the middle of a prison! We have never seen wayspots on such a site and we haven't given it much thought.
You may be thinking this is a joke, but yesterday a teammate got something really interesting to evaluate: a huge and real church in a prison!
Now the question arises: is this a valid wayspot?
Because according to the interpretation of the rules: It does not interfere with emergency services, the area is fenced with high walls, it is not public and prisoners (who are actually not allowed to have a cell phone), as well as visitors and prison guards / staff have access. How is it here? Accept or Reject? Common sense speaks slightly against it, but if you go by the rules it sounds permissible. In addition, this magnificent building was definitely worth a look.
@NianticGiffard Thoughts?
Comments
I would rate it 1* inappropriate location.
"Rehabilitation centers" are ineligible - and I believe you can make a strong argument that the term 'rehabilitation center' can include state/federal prisons.
But your line of thinking is correct, and it would make sense that a highly staffed prison, employee(s) would want a Pokestop at their work location. It's either 1) allow prison staff/faculty to have a waypoint to use, or 2) deem it too dangerous due to wandering players accidently walking into restricted zones that are highly secured. It's a tough one.
As a diligent commenter, my opinion would come down on the side of saying that these locations should be treated the same as other secured facilities like military bases and airport runways. The lack of clear guidance by Niantic seems like an oversight that I would like to see cleared up.
To add to this, but was looking through the Google maps and stumbled across a football pitch and thought, oh, I could submit that. Only after did I realise that it was in the garden of a hospital building for mental health. By the word of nianyic, this could be acceptable as technically it would t interfere with emergency services and anyone working or visiting there could get it, but I dint think it should be in as its just a sensitive area, so I would think the same for prisons
The prison in my own town is full of listed structures and buildings, including the exterior wall but still I'd be hesitant. However, for many years now, there has been a Wayspot at the entrance to the prison. I was surprised it was accepted but to be fair, it is a truly antique prison, so it has historic merit and at least the Wayspot is not inside the prison, being on the path outside it.
When a Niantic mod edits a comment but decides it isn't pertinent to offer clarification.
The prison next to the mall near me has a Wayspot. Though I imagine that current Wayspots at prisons would be ineligible, though Niantic clearly hasn’t stated as such.
Why/ what did they even edit on my comment (I know it was riddled with mistakes, stupid **** fingers and auto correct not auto correcting, bit they didn't even fix that,)
@NianticVK Before you edit comments here, it would be nice if you also make a statement about my question. Or at least show someone who can give an answer.
By the way, some people are waiting for an answer from you in the Ingress Forum. I am still waiting for Niantic to finally get their system under control and to make sure that I can log into my account again!
Hi there, @Brukterra-PGO, thanks for sharing the feedback! Prisons do not meet the acceptance criteria and prisons or nominations within the prison property should not be accepted. Having said that, we will update the rejection criteria page to include this clarification.
I see your post was edited to remove an offensive term in your comment.
Also, I have checked with Pooja regarding the Ingress login issue you're experiencing, you'll receive an update on this thread soon. Thanks!
Based on the comment by @NianticGiffard above, this POI should have been rejected. And as “prison” rules would apply exactly the same way as their “K12” rules, it would also meet their “removal due to invalid location” rules.
The only thing is I dont believe they are updating the removal criteria. They are updating the rejection criteria. Until they update the removal criteria technically the existing poi is able to stay.
"This thing should not have ever been accepted by Wayfarer in the first place" is logically equivalent to "Now that it's here, that was obviously a mistake, so it should be removed". But yes, I'm quite well aware of how there's a major disconnect between how Niantic applies their criteria for acceptance and for removal.
Logically yes, but from what I’ve seen of niantics removal process, who knows what will happen 🤷♂️
@NianticGiffard
When a Wayfarer-created POI is discovered on K12 property, Niantic will remove it upon being told about it. Because the location is invalid, and because Wayfarer reviewers should NOT have accepted it in the first place.
Can you confirm that this logic will hold true, for all OTHER "forbidden location" wayspots? Including prisons, as is the above example?
To be fair, k12 is also in the removal criteria, while prisons are not (but should be). Some other forbidden things tend to need to be requested by the owner to be removed I believe. For example, an unsafe lighthouse with no real pedestrian access (its authorised entrance only and even the path to it isn't exactly safe to walk along as the waves can come up over it) recently got removed because the harbour owners requested it, but requesting through niantics normal methods failed.
Feel free to report it if you want. It was approved before this prison clarification was established, so reviewers had no way of knowing Niantic would consider it ineligible.
I would like to see the same criteria for disapproval and removal as soon as possible.
I would like to see socially inappropriate spots removed quickly, and eligible spots displayed in full on the map with good descriptions and location information.
I believe this is the first step for Niantic to be recognized by society as a company that is essential to society.
Here is an article in which Mr. Murai, the president of Niantic's Japanese subsidiary, talks with a key figure of the Japanese government, saying, "I want to make this service a service where people can proudly say that their hobby is Pokémon Go.
I have a great deal of sympathy for this ideal.
However, as long as the inappropriate spots continue to remain, it will be difficult for those of us who play Ingress, Pokemon Go, Harry Potter, and these games to gain understanding from those who do not know the games.
https://k-tai.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/1199022.html
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
The problem is that the rejection criteria is not the same as the removal criteria. And for good reason. Criteria changes over time and so does what is eligible or not. So the rejection criteria currently could cover a lot of existing wayspots in the system but does not mean they should be removed.
I have an extremely hard time believing that niantic will be “essential” to any society though lol.
Candidates who were once approved will become ineligible. In that case, there will always be a wayspot that needs to be removed.
It is not advisable to keep such wayspots because they are not in the deletion criteria.
And the criteria for disapproval and deletion are not immutable, but must be constantly updated to reflect the common sense of society.
Otherwise, the general public will never accept us players. They will only despise us.
And I pity you, who can only play within the screen of your smartphone.
The wonderful world we need to experience is right in front of our eyes when we close our smartphone screens and raise our heads.
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
Yeaaa no
What total nonsense
Speak for yourself, I feel very well accepted as a player by the general public.