I'll deny this logic in part till the day I die. There are 2 completely seperate issues.
1) an Accepted POI not appearing in POG (or game of choice) because of cell rules ---- I agree with you 100%
2) A submitted stop being marked duplicate, because it's already in the Wayfarer Database and the submitter can't see that even from their own edit screen. --- I disagree with you 100%. Submissions are edittable inside wayfarer, the fact that the spot is there, but there the submitter cant see them is a wayfarer issue. In fact, it could be mitigated entirely on the wayfarer end. For example, on the edit screen, it could pop up exactly what reviewers see. This would allow you to check the nearby for duplicates and pull your submission. Especially important on wayfarer end, if your about to use a wayfarer earned upgrade on it.
@Cowyn2016-PGO your second point is an excellent one, and I do agree with your sentiment! There truly does need to be better waypoint visibility in the Submission screen, or if that's too difficult, then in Wayfarer itself. That's a valid Wayfarer issue.
Unfortunately, no one will want to be in charge of that community team with the level of anarchy and conformity that many Pokémon GO players are violating the Terms of Service.
The first step would be to voluntarily establish a joint community in some large unit (state, province, etc.) like the Ingress players voluntarily started, and the moderators would bring them together and start a regional forum.
And, of course, they should be a reasonably intelligent and rule-abiding group.
Only when these regional forums are functioning can we create a global community and forum.
The reason why we have a forum on Ingres is because we have gone through these steps and most of the players are disciplined enough to follow the rules and not violate the terms of service.
I can see a player wanting to get his opinion across, so he uses his 5 accounts to express his opinion one after another.
Back on topic, I find it pretty funny that pikmin got an official forum from the start, and Catan got one despite never seeing a full release, yet PoGo is still lacking one. Yeah it’s got a massive playerbase, but they could always limit users to be unable to post prior to reaching a certain level or other requirement. I mean, these forums already have a similar condition in place, so it’s not like it can’t be done.
I don't think it is possible to establish a forum while the compliance awareness of the majority of Pokémon GO players has collapsed.
And If a Pokémon GO forum were to be established under the current circumstances, it would probably be filled with the following uncontroversial garbage.
(1) In my city, please ban multiple accounts from **** and ****.
(2) I have five accounts, but only one account on each smartphone. Yet, I am told that I have multiple accounts. Please warn ****.
(3) When I manipulate my child's account, it says account sharing.
(4)Please build a Pokestop and a gym within 80 meters of my house.
(5)Why can't the mailbox in front of my house be a PokéStop?
(6)My friend code is ******.
(7) How can I sell my Pokémon GO account?
(8) I'm looking for participants in a rare Pokémon raid battle.
(9) I can capture regional Pokémon on your behalf.
Would you want to be an administrator of a message board like this?
I wouldn't want to participate in such a forum.
So, Pokemon GO's director, Michael, just tweeted that he is looking for a community manager.
You might want to ask him if he plans to start a community forum for Pokémon GO.
was a little mean. But it did remind me that there’s still no Pokémon GO forum. Is it the long term plan that the Wayfarer forum is the dumping ground for any Pokémon GO related queries, until they’re closed when a moderator wakes up?
Perhaps when creating a new post (like when it’s detailed what you need to put in an Invalid Wayspot Report) , you could list the Community forum links (and Pokémon GO support page link) so that if users come here by mistake (or by following the link on their reject/accept email but not realising that Wayfarer isn’t just for Pokémon GO), they can at least be redirected before posting about their Pokémon being stuck in a gym etc.
Oh, almost forgot the required Futurama GIF every few comments or so.
why do you think there might be low compliance awareness within that large but also neglected community? Do you think that maybe the complete surrender of any official venues for discourse to unofficial ones could have had something to do with that?
Let me spin this revamped vampire thread with a new thought...
Now that the submission screen shows hidden lightship POIs to avoid duplicates, niantic company should take the next step and put their game board rules inside their game submissions.
What do I mean?
If your submitting in Ingress and the rule is 20 meters, there should be a greyed outspace 20 meters around existing POI
If your submitting in Pokemon Go, and there are cell rules, the cell should be greyed out when submitting.
The reality is many POIs have numerous legitimate Pin Locations. A small church could be the church entrance, chapel, or sign out front, all legit. You're requiring people to play these game to a certain level to submit, so it only makes sense they are invested in their game.
They could create a subforum on here for Pokestops and Gyms only where questions about cells/gameboards even perhaps location edits of pins on big spots to fit the game rules could go.
Then anything not relating to POIs just gets locked/deleted.
The accumulation of bad history has led to the current devastation.
Let me be the first to say that it's a long story.
First, Niantic, Pokémon Inc. and Nintendo, they all misjudged the main player age group for Pokémon GO.
They were looking at a much younger age group.
So they removed all the COMMs and Google+ and Hangouts links in Pokémon GO that were in Ingress to protect the kids.
However, it was the adults who actually played.
If adults were going to play, there should have been community tools.
Morality and compliance is commanded from the top, but it cannot be achieved unless awareness is formed at the bottom.
It is the same as there are countries on earth with good and bad security, even though there is no significant difference in criminal laws.
The people have the right to determine morality and compliance.
Players need to understand that cheating is an action that ruins the game and should not be done to sustain this interesting game.
However, in the early days of Pokémon GO, the system did not require much collaboration among players, and the community never matured in the absence of common community tools.
In Ingress, COMM, and from the beginning, Google+ and Hangouts links were encouraged, the game system was also one that required collaboration, and this good fortune helped to form morale and compliance among players.
Niantic also tried to foster a local community at the beginning by holding "Third Saturday" meetup events on a regional basis.
However, the attempt failed because the key players, the Pokémon Trainers, were largely unresponsive.
This was compounded by the fact that their first Fest in Chicago was ruined by the cell phone company's poor network.
Perhaps since then, Niantic has abandoned all of its Ingress community-building programs in favor of Pokémon GO's reliance on influencers for communication.
Pokémon GO had the misfortune of failing to build from both the top and the bottom.
The next critical mistake came with the introduction of Raid Battles.
By the way, Niantic is hardly to blame.
At best, they should have made it possible for even a 5-star Legendary Pokémon to be defeated by one person over time, and to join in the middle of the battle.
This reflection has been applied to Pikmin.
Here, some influencers with no sense of morality or compliance spread the word that a small group of people could defeat a legendary Pokémon by creating many accounts and fighting, instead of the way Niantic had thought of interacting with friends in the community and fighting in raid battles together.
As a result, multi-accounts, which had not been so common up to this point, rapidly increased and went from the minority to the majority.
Morality and compliance completely collapsed here.
By this stage, local communities had formed, but most of them were little more than raid battle mutual aid societies.
'I'll do a raid at 6pm at that fountain gym over there,' 'OK.' Just this.
This is the birth of a community that tacitly tolerates injustice.
It is the exact opposite of what we see in Ingress, where as soon as cheating is discovered, no one will take you seriously.
And as this situation continues, players with high morals and a sense of compliance no longer belong to the community; they have become invisible, like fairies.
The end result is the word "INCENSE" or "6 hours" that is tweeted every time an official account tweets these days.
That is totally spam.
With only spammers and complainers visible on the surface, and influencers being pushed by them, it is hard to believe that any serious discussion can take place.
People want a well moderated and useful forum, it's not a rocket to the moon. It's honestly bizarre and kind of insulting how you're describing pokemon go players in this, but even if taken at face value and in good faith most of your objections could be solved with functional communication (like... a forum). You're looking at a group of people to whom no effort to reach out to is made and loudly proclaiming them to be unreachable.
That's your response to a long, well-reasoned, civil post? I disagree with @tp235-ING as well that a Pokemon Go forum couldn't be moderated properly, but seriously.
They also had some really good insights about the growth and acceptance of multi-account cheating in that game vs Ingress, although that's off-topic, imho.
That's your version of the history, but it might not be totally correct.
Comms in Ingress is a total mess with so many people attacking and insulting each other, despite your comments about honorability of Ingress players, it's well known that many people have mule accounts and accounts using the other faction in order to spy faction comms, "just in case", although due to this same reason, the faction comms are useless except in order to try to establish contact with other people, but that's only a first step as there's so much hate and distrust that you must phisically meet the other person in order to grant them access to the external (yes, external, no provided by Niantic) communication tools.
The hate between factions is totally pathetic, it brings out the worse of adult people and we can see that in these forums with people asking for the removal of portals because they are the home portals for a player of the other faction, and it's so easy for them to escalate and insult each other.
Did Niantic and Nintendo misjudged the average age group? Certainly they didn't expect so many millions of players right from the start, but come on, it's been almost 6 years, are you gonna tell me that the prices in the store are designed for minors or do they expect that grown ups are the ones that spend the money here? If they wanted to add a comm-like channel they would have added it sometime along the way.
As there's no official forums or a proper place for the millions of players to provide feedback and get answers, it's not strange that they resort to write in Twitter and they try to find answers about their nominations here, ignoring them or insulting them like you're doing is not gonna help, the issue will go on until Niantic and Nintendo finally take action.
He certainly looks like a veteran, even though he is a newcomer who logged in for the first time yesterday.
I can't say for sure, but I'm sure it's a multi-account created by someone else.
And he is proving me right.
Even if a dedicated Pokémon GO forum were to be created, it would be impossible to have a proper discussion with an impersonator and spamming account like him.
This is exactly what I am trying to say.
He is showing us all what is most lacking in the Pokémon GO community.
The Pokémon GO forum will be a success if imposters, multi-accounts, and spammers like him become a minority in local communities around the world, and if a community of players who have the decency not to take on such Poké Trainers and follow the rules of the game is nurtured.
As is often the case, I don't recognize the Pokemon Go community some Ingress players on this forum are describing. In this particular case forum member @tp235-ING description.
Instead I do recognize the aspects of Ingress player base Wheeltrekker describes.
It definitely varies by area. I've been active in four Pokemon Go communities in two different countries. In one, 80% of players multi-account. In another, more than 50% of players openly spoof and there are many multi-accounters as well. In the two others, almost no one multi-accounts and no one is know to spoof. It's definitely going to be subjective based on which communities you're a part of.
I can't comment on Ingress because I just solo play that. I like building my own little fields and then I don't care when they get taken down. I'm not really playing it right. :-)
I recognize both. I don't use comms at all in Ingress unless I can establish contact with a new area player and get them into Faction chats, because it's a toxic wasteland and the principal use of comms is to find stuff to report or to ping people for profile views. There are known backpackers in our region that are simply ignored, while others are singled out for reporting and taunts. It's a popularity contest that no one wins. But the Ingress community official forums are quite nice, although often contentious, and provide a good venue for collated and moderated information.
Pokemon Go has no such resource, and cannot create topics anywhere to get an official Niantic response. All they can do is comment on the PR Blurbs put out by the marketing and communications majors that are the Twitter and Facebook Niantic posters. I do know, however, that never have I seen in external faction or xfac chats for someone to reference "my spoofer alt" like they do in open Pokemon Go chats in this area. Nearly every active trainer, even sub-40 relatively new players, has multiple accounts for raids. Spoofers are held in high esteem because they can trade locals regionals from all over the world, most on or near the day of release, as well as send raid invites outside of local raid hours so that shift workers can participate in this game aspect (I'm strongly in favor of opening up raid hours to 24/7 and not letting the Rocket Team Leaders sleep all night, but I will fight diurnal bias till the end of time). If one comments that any of this is against the rules, one gets harassed because they're trying to deny people the stuff they want (which apparently is a complete shinyluckyhundodex). I'm a day one Pokemon Player/survivor of GoFest #1, and I may not have half the stuff that some of the locals here get without leaving their couch, but I can be patient.
I don't know if you have ever played Ingress, but if you have ever attended an official Ingress event, XM Anomaly, or participated in a large scale operation organized by the local community, you will understand what I mean.
In Ingress, no one respects your opponent if you win by playing without following the rules.
On the contrary, you will be despised by your own camp as well as the opposing camp.
This is because we believe that intense battles are meaningless unless clean players fight on a clean field.
In this respect, it is more like a sport than a game.
Sports have rules. If the rules are not followed, the sports cannot be played.
In Pokémon GO, it's like if you cheat and win the GO Battle League, no one will congratulate you, or if you fill up a gym battle with multiple accounts, no one will think you're amazing.
And if you have ever attended an official meetup event, such as Mission Day, First Saturday, or NL-1331, you will understand that Ingress players value discipline above all else.
Players who do not follow the rules will not be taken seriously by anyone. Cheating will be reported to Niantic.
In this respect, Ingress is much like the real society we live in.
We will follow the rules set forth in the game.
We believe this is a minimum obligation.
We do not believe that a discussion between undisciplined players will lead to a good conclusion.
It is not "private interest" that is necessary to create an interesting game. What is needed is "public interest.
Players respect Niantic's philosophy, and Niantic respects the players' moral and compliance standards, and a good conclusion for the game can only be reached when both sides are discussing the game's ideal future.
If you only shout "private interest" loudly, it will only become noise.
People may cover their ears to the noise, but they will not listen to it.
So, unless the community of Pokémon GO players will silently approve of multi-accounting and admonish players who claim private interests, there will never be a good conclusion.
On the other hand, if this stops happening, I don't see a problem with opening a forum and we can have a good discussion for Pokémon GO.
I've heard you've been playing Ingress for a long time, so I'm assuming you've attended official Ingress events like XM Anomaly, Mission Day, First Saturday, NL-1331, etc., and I'm sure you've met some good people in those events, but if It is unfortunate that you have attended those events and have only met such a bad community and players.
If you don't mind, I would even like to introduce you to some good communities and players who play by the rules of the game as set forth by Niantic and who see Niantic and their future on the same vector.
I have conversely tried to find such communities and players in Pokémon GO, but I find it difficult to find them in Pokémon GO alone, as all communities are tainted by multi-accounting and account sharing and did not have the discipline that exists in the Ingress community I am looking forward to seeing you again.
Fortunately I have Ingress friends and I enjoy playing Pokémon Go with them who play Pokémon Go according to the rules, but I am sorry to say that I am not very active and only somewhat active because Pokémon Go is not first, including me.
If there is a Pokémon GO community out there that is not tainted by multi-accounting and account sharing, please refer me.
Now, you say that Pokémon GO is not intended for children, but let me give you an example where Niantic, The Pokémon Company, and Nintendo, unlike Ingress and now Pikmin, have assumed that a certain percentage of children would play it.
(1) Pokémon GO Plus (official auto-catch tool)
This tool was released almost simultaneously with the launch of Pokémon GO. It has now been taken over by Monster Ball Plus, which can also be used for Pokémon games on the Nintendo Switch.
This tool, including its watch-shaped design, is basically for elementary school students who cannot swipe their smartphone screens correctly.
But, adults also carry them around, but I have never seen an adult wearing one on their arm, including to this day.
(2) Pokemon Trainer Club, Niantic Kids Account
No other Niantic games have such account linkages.
And Google, Facebook, Apple, and Nintendo accounts all require that you be at least 13 years old to have an account.
Therefore, from this point of view, Pokémon GO is the only game that is explicitly designed for play by those under 13 years of age.
You may look at Google Play's requirements and say, "Pokémon GO is for ages 7 and up, but Pikmin and Ingress are for ages 3 and up," but since you can only have an account to log into Google Play or the Apple store if you are at least 13 years old, you are effectively saying This is not true.
And most people over the age of 13 are handed a certain amount of free money by their parents.
They have no right to stop what they spend their allowance on, as long as it is within the limits given to them by their parents.
And the prices of items sold in the store within the Pokémon GO app are inexpensive enough to be purchased with a child's allowance.
For example, the Remote Raid Pass, which is often used by Pokémon GO players, costs 250 Pokecoins for three.
I live in Japan, so I am speaking in terms of Japanese prices, but in Japanese yen, the price is 300 yen.
If you ask me how much 300 yen is worth, it is the equivalent of two 500 ml plastic bottles of tea. It is the equivalent of 2.5 hamburkers at McDonald's. It is a little less than a SHORT of coffee at Starbucks. That's about it.
And unlike Ingress, where no in-game currency is issued for game play, or Pikmin, where in-game currency is issued but not for upgrade purposes, Pokémon GO allows PokeCoins for all purposes, and you can get up to 50 PokeCoins from the gym every day The following is a list of the most common reasons for this.
Therefore, it is almost free as long as you do not become addicted.
What you say does not apply.
Also, communication between players may change a bit once Niantic Social launches in Pokémon GO.
If it had existed at the start of Raid Battles, it would not have been so tainted by multi-accounts and account sharing.
And I think the raid battles would have unfolded the way Niantic portrayed them in their Youtube video at the launch of Raid Battles, with the right players.
@tp235-ING Yes, despite being a Pogo player first. I have played Ingress, attended official anomaly, been involved in local community and operations, recursed.
Your view of Ingress community is, from my perspective, highly idealistic and not what I have experienced (mule accounts, open but hard to prove multi-accounting, closing one's eyes when it favours your faction, spreading of rumours, harassment through COMM/telegram and in real life etc.)
But that's not the whole picture of Ingress community. Personally I'm fortunate to have found a group I feel comfortable with but I also know several players who never did.
I also don't claim that there isn't a stricter following of rules in Ingress. Main reason being that the actions of others are more public and affect the game board and other player's experience.
Another reason being that Niantic actually does something to clear (spoofing) cases.
So, unless the community of Pokémon GO players will silently approve of multi-accounting and admonish players who claim private interests, there will never be a good conclusion.
On the other hand, if this stops happening, I don't see a problem with opening a forum and we can have a good discussion for Pokémon GO.
There is already moderated good discussion for Pokemon Go. Example
The difference between the 2 mindsets is that Ingress is more about competition, and Pokémon Go is more about cooperation.
As a rural player, my perspective is that multi accounting in Pokémon Go is tolerated because it doesn't affect others negatively. It does help forming a big enough group to take down a raid boss. If those people would be reported, smaller communities wouldn't be able to take down raid bosses anymore, the community would lose it's purpose and cease to exist. Ingress doesn't have such a mechanic. In a rural community, there is no need to get your portals to level 8. You can get them to level 4 by yourself (higher as well, but at that time you would need to use resources that you cannot get from hacking your own portals.). And that is enough. When people cheat in ways that does affect people negatively, people do complain. When a player puts multiple Pokémon in a gym, or spoofs to take over a gym, people complain.
And saying Ingress players play by the rules is also incorrect. Just look at the Intel map. Are you telling me that those large fields are created by people walking up to those portals and working together? They are created by people driving from portal to portal, killing links and fields, and making new ones. All the missions in my local area have Cargress in their description, or their description mentions they are best done by car. The only walking mission here is the one I created. This play-style also influences their voting behavior in Wayfarer. This is one of the reasons why trail markers are so hard to get accepted, because they are often found in places that are hard to reach by car, and accepting them would make it harder to create those big fields.
Note, this is just my personal perspective. I don't know how city play is for either game. Maybe my situation is rare. But at least in my area, Ingress players are no better than Pokémon players.
@tp235-ING You speak like a true Ingress player, hating other people just for the choices that they made for a game.
What's the topic at hand? An official forum for Pokemon Go players to interact with Niantic.
Does that harm in any way to other people? Not at all
Would that help in order to prevent multiaccounting or other issues with the attitude of Pokemon Go players? Maybe yes, or not, we can't know, but it wouln't hurt
So you can keep on speweing bad words about trainers all the time, the facts are that you can play pokemon go with everyone, it doesn't matter the color that they prefer, you just look at the people and decide if they are honest players and if you wanna meet with them. In Ingress if your best friend picks the wrong color then your friendship will be broken, you can't play along them anymore.
The goal of Ingress? Controlling the mindsets of everyone around you (mindunits), prevent that other people can play by covering them in BAF and so many layers that nothing is visible in the scanner.
The goal of Pokemon? Catch pokemon, you only compete with yourself and can cooperate with anyone that you want.
Please, stop attacking other people because they prefer different things.
You condone cheating as a cooperative effort to defeat Pokémon.
In a situation where multi-account players are occupying Pokémon Gyms for 8 hours each to earn 50 pokecoins per day for their accounts, " a Pokémon GO new comer" would be instantly kicked out and "uninstall Pokémon GO" in disgust at the Pokémon Gyms being occupied by cheaters, or "uninstall Pokémon GO." They can choose to "cheat themselves.
Normally, if you are new to Pokémon GO and know what's going on, it's usually the former.
No other game can be played where most of the players in the game field are cheaters.
In the real society, there is no situation where most of the people in this town are criminals.
If you talk to people who don't know Pokémon Go (the majority in the real world), they will question the social common sense of Pokémon players.
So, you should question your own common sense.
If you still don't question your common sense and think that this is the right Pokemon GO world, you surely don't understand Niantic's philosophy.
Your way of thinking is not "Adventures on foot with others".
It's "Adventures on foot with many Pokemon GO accounts".
Comments
I'll deny this logic in part till the day I die. There are 2 completely seperate issues.
1) an Accepted POI not appearing in POG (or game of choice) because of cell rules ---- I agree with you 100%
2) A submitted stop being marked duplicate, because it's already in the Wayfarer Database and the submitter can't see that even from their own edit screen. --- I disagree with you 100%. Submissions are edittable inside wayfarer, the fact that the spot is there, but there the submitter cant see them is a wayfarer issue. In fact, it could be mitigated entirely on the wayfarer end. For example, on the edit screen, it could pop up exactly what reviewers see. This would allow you to check the nearby for duplicates and pull your submission. Especially important on wayfarer end, if your about to use a wayfarer earned upgrade on it.
@Cowyn2016-PGO your second point is an excellent one, and I do agree with your sentiment! There truly does need to be better waypoint visibility in the Submission screen, or if that's too difficult, then in Wayfarer itself. That's a valid Wayfarer issue.
Unfortunately, no one will want to be in charge of that community team with the level of anarchy and conformity that many Pokémon GO players are violating the Terms of Service.
The first step would be to voluntarily establish a joint community in some large unit (state, province, etc.) like the Ingress players voluntarily started, and the moderators would bring them together and start a regional forum.
And, of course, they should be a reasonably intelligent and rule-abiding group.
Only when these regional forums are functioning can we create a global community and forum.
The reason why we have a forum on Ingres is because we have gone through these steps and most of the players are disciplined enough to follow the rules and not violate the terms of service.
I can see a player wanting to get his opinion across, so he uses his 5 accounts to express his opinion one after another.
This didn’t age well...
Back on topic, I find it pretty funny that pikmin got an official forum from the start, and Catan got one despite never seeing a full release, yet PoGo is still lacking one. Yeah it’s got a massive playerbase, but they could always limit users to be unable to post prior to reaching a certain level or other requirement. I mean, these forums already have a similar condition in place, so it’s not like it can’t be done.
Then freshly started newbies who only ask for beginners tips can't participate in the forum at all.
Now look at the comments in this thread below.
probably the pokemon company dont let them to create one or something in the contract
@PkmnTrainerJ-ING
I don't think it is possible to establish a forum while the compliance awareness of the majority of Pokémon GO players has collapsed.
And If a Pokémon GO forum were to be established under the current circumstances, it would probably be filled with the following uncontroversial garbage.
(1) In my city, please ban multiple accounts from **** and ****.
(2) I have five accounts, but only one account on each smartphone. Yet, I am told that I have multiple accounts. Please warn ****.
(3) When I manipulate my child's account, it says account sharing.
(4)Please build a Pokestop and a gym within 80 meters of my house.
(5)Why can't the mailbox in front of my house be a PokéStop?
(6)My friend code is ******.
(7) How can I sell my Pokémon GO account?
(8) I'm looking for participants in a rare Pokémon raid battle.
(9) I can capture regional Pokémon on your behalf.
Would you want to be an administrator of a message board like this?
I wouldn't want to participate in such a forum.
So, Pokemon GO's director, Michael, just tweeted that he is looking for a community manager.
You might want to ask him if he plans to start a community forum for Pokémon GO.
Maybe this;
was a little mean. But it did remind me that there’s still no Pokémon GO forum. Is it the long term plan that the Wayfarer forum is the dumping ground for any Pokémon GO related queries, until they’re closed when a moderator wakes up?
Perhaps when creating a new post (like when it’s detailed what you need to put in an Invalid Wayspot Report) , you could list the Community forum links (and Pokémon GO support page link) so that if users come here by mistake (or by following the link on their reject/accept email but not realising that Wayfarer isn’t just for Pokémon GO), they can at least be redirected before posting about their Pokémon being stuck in a gym etc.
Oh, almost forgot the required Futurama GIF every few comments or so.
why do you think there might be low compliance awareness within that large but also neglected community? Do you think that maybe the complete surrender of any official venues for discourse to unofficial ones could have had something to do with that?
Let me spin this revamped vampire thread with a new thought...
Now that the submission screen shows hidden lightship POIs to avoid duplicates, niantic company should take the next step and put their game board rules inside their game submissions.
What do I mean?
If your submitting in Ingress and the rule is 20 meters, there should be a greyed outspace 20 meters around existing POI
If your submitting in Pokemon Go, and there are cell rules, the cell should be greyed out when submitting.
The reality is many POIs have numerous legitimate Pin Locations. A small church could be the church entrance, chapel, or sign out front, all legit. You're requiring people to play these game to a certain level to submit, so it only makes sense they are invested in their game.
You're totally right, Wayfarer needs to do more to explain/educate submitters !! I'm still sure half of the coal submitted is in good faith.
With maybe tests, tutorials, or other ways to incentivize great submission and prevent coal submission.
But a Pokemon forum ?
@tp235-ING has perfectly resumed what are all current PoGo forums :
They could create a subforum on here for Pokestops and Gyms only where questions about cells/gameboards even perhaps location edits of pins on big spots to fit the game rules could go.
Then anything not relating to POIs just gets locked/deleted.
I can't say it in a few words.
The accumulation of bad history has led to the current devastation.
Let me be the first to say that it's a long story.
First, Niantic, Pokémon Inc. and Nintendo, they all misjudged the main player age group for Pokémon GO.
They were looking at a much younger age group.
So they removed all the COMMs and Google+ and Hangouts links in Pokémon GO that were in Ingress to protect the kids.
However, it was the adults who actually played.
If adults were going to play, there should have been community tools.
Morality and compliance is commanded from the top, but it cannot be achieved unless awareness is formed at the bottom.
It is the same as there are countries on earth with good and bad security, even though there is no significant difference in criminal laws.
The people have the right to determine morality and compliance.
Players need to understand that cheating is an action that ruins the game and should not be done to sustain this interesting game.
However, in the early days of Pokémon GO, the system did not require much collaboration among players, and the community never matured in the absence of common community tools.
In Ingress, COMM, and from the beginning, Google+ and Hangouts links were encouraged, the game system was also one that required collaboration, and this good fortune helped to form morale and compliance among players.
Niantic also tried to foster a local community at the beginning by holding "Third Saturday" meetup events on a regional basis.
However, the attempt failed because the key players, the Pokémon Trainers, were largely unresponsive.
This was compounded by the fact that their first Fest in Chicago was ruined by the cell phone company's poor network.
Perhaps since then, Niantic has abandoned all of its Ingress community-building programs in favor of Pokémon GO's reliance on influencers for communication.
Pokémon GO had the misfortune of failing to build from both the top and the bottom.
The next critical mistake came with the introduction of Raid Battles.
By the way, Niantic is hardly to blame.
At best, they should have made it possible for even a 5-star Legendary Pokémon to be defeated by one person over time, and to join in the middle of the battle.
This reflection has been applied to Pikmin.
Here, some influencers with no sense of morality or compliance spread the word that a small group of people could defeat a legendary Pokémon by creating many accounts and fighting, instead of the way Niantic had thought of interacting with friends in the community and fighting in raid battles together.
As a result, multi-accounts, which had not been so common up to this point, rapidly increased and went from the minority to the majority.
Morality and compliance completely collapsed here.
By this stage, local communities had formed, but most of them were little more than raid battle mutual aid societies.
'I'll do a raid at 6pm at that fountain gym over there,' 'OK.' Just this.
This is the birth of a community that tacitly tolerates injustice.
It is the exact opposite of what we see in Ingress, where as soon as cheating is discovered, no one will take you seriously.
And as this situation continues, players with high morals and a sense of compliance no longer belong to the community; they have become invisible, like fairies.
The end result is the word "INCENSE" or "6 hours" that is tweeted every time an official account tweets these days.
That is totally spam.
With only spammers and complainers visible on the surface, and influencers being pushed by them, it is hard to believe that any serious discussion can take place.
Sorry it took so long.
People want a well moderated and useful forum, it's not a rocket to the moon. It's honestly bizarre and kind of insulting how you're describing pokemon go players in this, but even if taken at face value and in good faith most of your objections could be solved with functional communication (like... a forum). You're looking at a group of people to whom no effort to reach out to is made and loudly proclaiming them to be unreachable.
Wow, looks like there is a sus Ditto who escaped from yesterday event @NianticGiffard
That's your response to a long, well-reasoned, civil post? I disagree with @tp235-ING as well that a Pokemon Go forum couldn't be moderated properly, but seriously.
They also had some really good insights about the growth and acceptance of multi-account cheating in that game vs Ingress, although that's off-topic, imho.
That's your version of the history, but it might not be totally correct.
Comms in Ingress is a total mess with so many people attacking and insulting each other, despite your comments about honorability of Ingress players, it's well known that many people have mule accounts and accounts using the other faction in order to spy faction comms, "just in case", although due to this same reason, the faction comms are useless except in order to try to establish contact with other people, but that's only a first step as there's so much hate and distrust that you must phisically meet the other person in order to grant them access to the external (yes, external, no provided by Niantic) communication tools.
The hate between factions is totally pathetic, it brings out the worse of adult people and we can see that in these forums with people asking for the removal of portals because they are the home portals for a player of the other faction, and it's so easy for them to escalate and insult each other.
Did Niantic and Nintendo misjudged the average age group? Certainly they didn't expect so many millions of players right from the start, but come on, it's been almost 6 years, are you gonna tell me that the prices in the store are designed for minors or do they expect that grown ups are the ones that spend the money here? If they wanted to add a comm-like channel they would have added it sometime along the way.
As there's no official forums or a proper place for the millions of players to provide feedback and get answers, it's not strange that they resort to write in Twitter and they try to find answers about their nominations here, ignoring them or insulting them like you're doing is not gonna help, the issue will go on until Niantic and Nintendo finally take action.
Ditto?😄
Good sense!!
He certainly looks like a veteran, even though he is a newcomer who logged in for the first time yesterday.
I can't say for sure, but I'm sure it's a multi-account created by someone else.
And he is proving me right.
Even if a dedicated Pokémon GO forum were to be created, it would be impossible to have a proper discussion with an impersonator and spamming account like him.
This is exactly what I am trying to say.
He is showing us all what is most lacking in the Pokémon GO community.
The Pokémon GO forum will be a success if imposters, multi-accounts, and spammers like him become a minority in local communities around the world, and if a community of players who have the decency not to take on such Poké Trainers and follow the rules of the game is nurtured.
As is often the case, I don't recognize the Pokemon Go community some Ingress players on this forum are describing. In this particular case forum member @tp235-ING description.
Instead I do recognize the aspects of Ingress player base Wheeltrekker describes.
It definitely varies by area. I've been active in four Pokemon Go communities in two different countries. In one, 80% of players multi-account. In another, more than 50% of players openly spoof and there are many multi-accounters as well. In the two others, almost no one multi-accounts and no one is know to spoof. It's definitely going to be subjective based on which communities you're a part of.
I can't comment on Ingress because I just solo play that. I like building my own little fields and then I don't care when they get taken down. I'm not really playing it right. :-)
I recognize both. I don't use comms at all in Ingress unless I can establish contact with a new area player and get them into Faction chats, because it's a toxic wasteland and the principal use of comms is to find stuff to report or to ping people for profile views. There are known backpackers in our region that are simply ignored, while others are singled out for reporting and taunts. It's a popularity contest that no one wins. But the Ingress community official forums are quite nice, although often contentious, and provide a good venue for collated and moderated information.
Pokemon Go has no such resource, and cannot create topics anywhere to get an official Niantic response. All they can do is comment on the PR Blurbs put out by the marketing and communications majors that are the Twitter and Facebook Niantic posters. I do know, however, that never have I seen in external faction or xfac chats for someone to reference "my spoofer alt" like they do in open Pokemon Go chats in this area. Nearly every active trainer, even sub-40 relatively new players, has multiple accounts for raids. Spoofers are held in high esteem because they can trade locals regionals from all over the world, most on or near the day of release, as well as send raid invites outside of local raid hours so that shift workers can participate in this game aspect (I'm strongly in favor of opening up raid hours to 24/7 and not letting the Rocket Team Leaders sleep all night, but I will fight diurnal bias till the end of time). If one comments that any of this is against the rules, one gets harassed because they're trying to deny people the stuff they want (which apparently is a complete shinyluckyhundodex). I'm a day one Pokemon Player/survivor of GoFest #1, and I may not have half the stuff that some of the locals here get without leaving their couch, but I can be patient.
@Duiomar-PGO @Kellerrys-ING
I don't know if you have ever played Ingress, but if you have ever attended an official Ingress event, XM Anomaly, or participated in a large scale operation organized by the local community, you will understand what I mean.
In Ingress, no one respects your opponent if you win by playing without following the rules.
On the contrary, you will be despised by your own camp as well as the opposing camp.
This is because we believe that intense battles are meaningless unless clean players fight on a clean field.
In this respect, it is more like a sport than a game.
Sports have rules. If the rules are not followed, the sports cannot be played.
In Pokémon GO, it's like if you cheat and win the GO Battle League, no one will congratulate you, or if you fill up a gym battle with multiple accounts, no one will think you're amazing.
And if you have ever attended an official meetup event, such as Mission Day, First Saturday, or NL-1331, you will understand that Ingress players value discipline above all else.
Players who do not follow the rules will not be taken seriously by anyone. Cheating will be reported to Niantic.
In this respect, Ingress is much like the real society we live in.
We will follow the rules set forth in the game.
We believe this is a minimum obligation.
We do not believe that a discussion between undisciplined players will lead to a good conclusion.
It is not "private interest" that is necessary to create an interesting game. What is needed is "public interest.
Players respect Niantic's philosophy, and Niantic respects the players' moral and compliance standards, and a good conclusion for the game can only be reached when both sides are discussing the game's ideal future.
If you only shout "private interest" loudly, it will only become noise.
People may cover their ears to the noise, but they will not listen to it.
So, unless the community of Pokémon GO players will silently approve of multi-accounting and admonish players who claim private interests, there will never be a good conclusion.
On the other hand, if this stops happening, I don't see a problem with opening a forum and we can have a good discussion for Pokémon GO.
@WheelTrekker-ING
I've heard you've been playing Ingress for a long time, so I'm assuming you've attended official Ingress events like XM Anomaly, Mission Day, First Saturday, NL-1331, etc., and I'm sure you've met some good people in those events, but if It is unfortunate that you have attended those events and have only met such a bad community and players.
If you don't mind, I would even like to introduce you to some good communities and players who play by the rules of the game as set forth by Niantic and who see Niantic and their future on the same vector.
I have conversely tried to find such communities and players in Pokémon GO, but I find it difficult to find them in Pokémon GO alone, as all communities are tainted by multi-accounting and account sharing and did not have the discipline that exists in the Ingress community I am looking forward to seeing you again.
Fortunately I have Ingress friends and I enjoy playing Pokémon Go with them who play Pokémon Go according to the rules, but I am sorry to say that I am not very active and only somewhat active because Pokémon Go is not first, including me.
If there is a Pokémon GO community out there that is not tainted by multi-accounting and account sharing, please refer me.
Now, you say that Pokémon GO is not intended for children, but let me give you an example where Niantic, The Pokémon Company, and Nintendo, unlike Ingress and now Pikmin, have assumed that a certain percentage of children would play it.
(1) Pokémon GO Plus (official auto-catch tool)
This tool was released almost simultaneously with the launch of Pokémon GO. It has now been taken over by Monster Ball Plus, which can also be used for Pokémon games on the Nintendo Switch.
This tool, including its watch-shaped design, is basically for elementary school students who cannot swipe their smartphone screens correctly.
But, adults also carry them around, but I have never seen an adult wearing one on their arm, including to this day.
(2) Pokemon Trainer Club, Niantic Kids Account
No other Niantic games have such account linkages.
And Google, Facebook, Apple, and Nintendo accounts all require that you be at least 13 years old to have an account.
Therefore, from this point of view, Pokémon GO is the only game that is explicitly designed for play by those under 13 years of age.
You may look at Google Play's requirements and say, "Pokémon GO is for ages 7 and up, but Pikmin and Ingress are for ages 3 and up," but since you can only have an account to log into Google Play or the Apple store if you are at least 13 years old, you are effectively saying This is not true.
And most people over the age of 13 are handed a certain amount of free money by their parents.
They have no right to stop what they spend their allowance on, as long as it is within the limits given to them by their parents.
And the prices of items sold in the store within the Pokémon GO app are inexpensive enough to be purchased with a child's allowance.
For example, the Remote Raid Pass, which is often used by Pokémon GO players, costs 250 Pokecoins for three.
I live in Japan, so I am speaking in terms of Japanese prices, but in Japanese yen, the price is 300 yen.
If you ask me how much 300 yen is worth, it is the equivalent of two 500 ml plastic bottles of tea. It is the equivalent of 2.5 hamburkers at McDonald's. It is a little less than a SHORT of coffee at Starbucks. That's about it.
And unlike Ingress, where no in-game currency is issued for game play, or Pikmin, where in-game currency is issued but not for upgrade purposes, Pokémon GO allows PokeCoins for all purposes, and you can get up to 50 PokeCoins from the gym every day The following is a list of the most common reasons for this.
Therefore, it is almost free as long as you do not become addicted.
What you say does not apply.
Also, communication between players may change a bit once Niantic Social launches in Pokémon GO.
If it had existed at the start of Raid Battles, it would not have been so tainted by multi-accounts and account sharing.
And I think the raid battles would have unfolded the way Niantic portrayed them in their Youtube video at the launch of Raid Battles, with the right players.
*a long wall of text*
@tp235-ING Yes, despite being a Pogo player first. I have played Ingress, attended official anomaly, been involved in local community and operations, recursed.
Your view of Ingress community is, from my perspective, highly idealistic and not what I have experienced (mule accounts, open but hard to prove multi-accounting, closing one's eyes when it favours your faction, spreading of rumours, harassment through COMM/telegram and in real life etc.)
But that's not the whole picture of Ingress community. Personally I'm fortunate to have found a group I feel comfortable with but I also know several players who never did.
I also don't claim that there isn't a stricter following of rules in Ingress. Main reason being that the actions of others are more public and affect the game board and other player's experience.
Another reason being that Niantic actually does something to clear (spoofing) cases.
So, unless the community of Pokémon GO players will silently approve of multi-accounting and admonish players who claim private interests, there will never be a good conclusion.
On the other hand, if this stops happening, I don't see a problem with opening a forum and we can have a good discussion for Pokémon GO.
There is already moderated good discussion for Pokemon Go. Example
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheSilphRoad/
The difference between the 2 mindsets is that Ingress is more about competition, and Pokémon Go is more about cooperation.
As a rural player, my perspective is that multi accounting in Pokémon Go is tolerated because it doesn't affect others negatively. It does help forming a big enough group to take down a raid boss. If those people would be reported, smaller communities wouldn't be able to take down raid bosses anymore, the community would lose it's purpose and cease to exist. Ingress doesn't have such a mechanic. In a rural community, there is no need to get your portals to level 8. You can get them to level 4 by yourself (higher as well, but at that time you would need to use resources that you cannot get from hacking your own portals.). And that is enough. When people cheat in ways that does affect people negatively, people do complain. When a player puts multiple Pokémon in a gym, or spoofs to take over a gym, people complain.
And saying Ingress players play by the rules is also incorrect. Just look at the Intel map. Are you telling me that those large fields are created by people walking up to those portals and working together? They are created by people driving from portal to portal, killing links and fields, and making new ones. All the missions in my local area have Cargress in their description, or their description mentions they are best done by car. The only walking mission here is the one I created. This play-style also influences their voting behavior in Wayfarer. This is one of the reasons why trail markers are so hard to get accepted, because they are often found in places that are hard to reach by car, and accepting them would make it harder to create those big fields.
Note, this is just my personal perspective. I don't know how city play is for either game. Maybe my situation is rare. But at least in my area, Ingress players are no better than Pokémon players.
@tp235-ING You speak like a true Ingress player, hating other people just for the choices that they made for a game.
What's the topic at hand? An official forum for Pokemon Go players to interact with Niantic.
Does that harm in any way to other people? Not at all
Would that help in order to prevent multiaccounting or other issues with the attitude of Pokemon Go players? Maybe yes, or not, we can't know, but it wouln't hurt
So you can keep on speweing bad words about trainers all the time, the facts are that you can play pokemon go with everyone, it doesn't matter the color that they prefer, you just look at the people and decide if they are honest players and if you wanna meet with them. In Ingress if your best friend picks the wrong color then your friendship will be broken, you can't play along them anymore.
The goal of Ingress? Controlling the mindsets of everyone around you (mindunits), prevent that other people can play by covering them in BAF and so many layers that nothing is visible in the scanner.
The goal of Pokemon? Catch pokemon, you only compete with yourself and can cooperate with anyone that you want.
Please, stop attacking other people because they prefer different things.
I don't agree with a single word you have said.
You condone cheating as a cooperative effort to defeat Pokémon.
In a situation where multi-account players are occupying Pokémon Gyms for 8 hours each to earn 50 pokecoins per day for their accounts, " a Pokémon GO new comer" would be instantly kicked out and "uninstall Pokémon GO" in disgust at the Pokémon Gyms being occupied by cheaters, or "uninstall Pokémon GO." They can choose to "cheat themselves.
Normally, if you are new to Pokémon GO and know what's going on, it's usually the former.
No other game can be played where most of the players in the game field are cheaters.
In the real society, there is no situation where most of the people in this town are criminals.
If you talk to people who don't know Pokémon Go (the majority in the real world), they will question the social common sense of Pokémon players.
So, you should question your own common sense.
If you still don't question your common sense and think that this is the right Pokemon GO world, you surely don't understand Niantic's philosophy.
Your way of thinking is not "Adventures on foot with others".
It's "Adventures on foot with many Pokemon GO accounts".
All are wrong.
Hello everyone! Based on the content of the discussion, we'll be closing this thread for further comments. Your understanding is appreciated.