You appear confused and it is very puzzling why you keep focusing on this. Are you missreading something? No one is trying to be deceitful here. Nowhere am I decribing any teammember as part of the opposed faction. On the contrary have I been completly forward with this matter, stating the portals concerned are what commonly is known as enl coach portals, i.e. reached by an enl agent from their home.
Thus we can conclude I have answered your questions even if you have left some questions directed to you unanswered. But that is fine. Since I doubt any further discussion down this path will offer anything of value to the case. You can always write me on tg instead if there is something you wish to add.
I forgot to mention that is was Grisatassen that wrote the first sentence and sent it to me to post it because he CBA with people with attention seeking problem to comment on the post so there You have it.
I fail to understand why my participation in this debate has anything to do with the petition at hand. I don't habitually post in the forum and rarely follow the goings on in here.
No less than five times within three months two different portals, previously cleared by Wayfarer and established in the portal network, have been removed from approximately the same location. This must be an unique "hit rate" when it comes to having a portal removed from the game. How many reports does it take to get this lucky? Or are other things than "luck" at play here?
The first portal that got removed was a metal sculpture mounted on a rock and situated about four meters from the Rikstelefon portal we are discussing here. Should that previous portal be removed, in your opinion?
There was quite a few of your team mates that gloated in comm the second time that portal got binned, as you probably recall since you were one of them. And I remember you jeering in comm when we had another object in the vincinity up for vote in Wayfarer... You seem to have strong emotions about the quality of portals and nominations around where I live, I'd say... Strong indeed. I don't see the same commitment just a few blocks away, where you have no qualms in putting your resonators in portals of lesser poi.... Other standards apply?
It is ridiculously obvious that the removal of the previous and this portal is nothing less than abuse of the Wayfarer concept. It has all to do with who can reach the portal while on the couch, right?
You guys really need to re-read eligibility, rejection and removal criteria. Keep at mind that every invalid Wayspot removal are game-neutral and subject to removal criteria.
You can "design" the board if you muster enough mates both for accepting, moving and reporting portals for removal. In this case, as the evidence shows, a legit portal -accepted on to the portal network- has been removed for the second time. And before that, another installation was taken off the network for no other real reason than spite, no less than three times. All this within a three months time. That's the issue here....
Removal requests are all handled by Niantic reviewers, not the players. But sometimes they can be wrong though (i.e. assuming a building as a PRP while it's actually a multifamily property in this thread). Hence why they open up appeal section for wrongly removed Wayspot in this forum.
Also it's not uncommon that Wayspots are appealed in this forum after being removed so many times.
To my knowledge, removals are triggered by reports. The more reports, the more attention and the more likely the review will follow the recommendations in said report.
If a portal is reported as situated on a private property, for example, the reviewing party (Niantic) through investigating by looking at a satellite image/street view on Google Maps, will go with the actions recommended by the many reports. In this case; removal, although the building by which it stands, consists of four different households. This, however, is abuse, since it is pretty clear to whoever initiates the report, that the portal objectively should be valid.
If not this one, and if Greatreaper has a point in his remark that Rikstelefon is an old and insignificant installation of no historical value, the original portal, which was a sculpture, as previously mentioned, should not be reported and taken off the network in the first place. It happened three times, however, and was gloated about in comm, to add insult to injury. Apparently some are dead set on stopping all attempts to introduce a portal at this location and one can't help to wonder why.. If I had the Nelson column mounted at the place, some would go to great lengths to downvote it in Wayfarer or, if accepted, have it removed if passed!
All else aside, in regards of Rikstelefon actually being portal material as such, other Rikstelefon plaques have been approved and are still in the network. Evidence has been produced to validate that the building is multi residential, which should qualify one of the two installations as portal. Reporting them should be regarded as abuse of the trust that comes with Wayfarer privileges.
I think we all agree that there is abuse in the reporting system - just as well as there is abuse in the nominating system.
It should be quite easy to solve, because there is such a system in place in wayfarer. When you assess portals and you have a clear discrepancy in your assessment compared to the majority, the ranking takes a hit. When it's too low, your input does not have the same merit (or at least it doesn't credit your ingame merits).
Just introduce the same for nominations and reports. If you nominate something that is not POI-worthy too many times, you lose your right to nominate. If you report a POI or request to move it and your report is denied too many times, you lose your right to report.
Wait a second... Who reached out? GreatReaper didn't reach out! He has argumentet why the portal should be removed in somewhat vague terms. It is @Tim20000-ING who reaches out with an appeal to reinstate a portal that has been removed and he and @Sindaya-ING have produced evidence of the building adjacent to the object, is consisting of four households in four different apartments. On what grounds does Niantic deem the portal in question not valid to be part of the network? Is it the quality of the portal that is questionable, as Greatreaper argues, or are you under the impression the building in question is a private residence for one household? Please clarify this! In the latter case there is another object that we will ask you to reinstate as a portal to the network
@NianticOtoStar I would also want a clarification on why you decided to retired this waypoint. Were talking a lot of time and effort from players on both this waypoint and the statue mention in the thread.
It's now clear and proven it is not a private home. So please be so kind to explain your reasons.
Read again what @HankWolfman-PGO has said about the removal, unless any of you can give better evidences if the property is a multifamily property and not PRP. I guess Niantic doesn't satisfied enough with the evidences while the property is pretty much similiar with nearby properties in term of size.
Or answer this: the property has a basement garage if I'm not mistaken, can you tell how many cars that are parked inside?
@Sindaya-ING posted a screenshot of how many households that are registered on this building and their apartment numbers. There are three registered households today. One apartment is currently vacant and pending a tennant scheduled to move in next month. How much more evidence can you ask for, really? Google the adress Mårtensgatan 33, Råå Sweden and you will find a full list of current residents. Very simple and I don't understand what more evidence one could expect, this being a GAME and not a murder trial or matter of national security! How many cars are parked in the garage? There are none at the moment, but I guess you could fit a smaller car or a couple of bikes in there.
That said, IF what's in question here is whether the building is a single family dwelling or not! Still waiting for a clarification in this matter... @NianticOtoStar
Here is a summary list of "strong indications", previously presented in this thread, that this is a multi-family house:
* There is an intercom at the front door. (Source: Google Maps)
* There is 4 mailboxes just outside the front door (Source: Google Maps)
* There is 6 persons, above 30 years old, registered on the address (Source: Swedish population register by the Swedish Tax Agency)
* The above 6 persons are registered in 3 different apartments (Apartment 1002, 1101 and 1201) (Source: Swedish population register by the Swedish Tax Agency)
In addition to that:
* The 2 owners of the house are NOT living on the address (Source: The Swedish Land Registration Authority)
* NONE of the 6 persons on the address have the same last name (Source: Swedish population register by the Swedish Tax Agency)
Also; The portal in question, “Rikstelefon” was located on a public walkside, and was NOT inside the plot boundary of the house anyway.
@NianticOtoStar Still waiting for some pointers as to why this portal was rejected... Still no answer and we found your reply to Greatreaper somewhat confusing. Was this a portal of poor quality, not meeting the standards of point of interest? Or was it unclear whether the adjacent building is a one household residence or not? That matter should be sorted by now...
@NianticOtoStar This is no good. No good at all! Please read the thread again and come back with clarifications to the questions that have been put forward in regards to this portal, or another possible portal -also removed for unclear reasons. This is not looking good at all from your end.
Is the removal based on that the object doesn't meet portal criteria or are we still in doubt as of the status of the adjacent building? Put some effort in!
Are Niantic ok with abuse of report system in order to deny agents of opposing team a couch portal? And, if so, why are rules in place to prevent this to happen?
Somehow I doubt that. The discussion in this thread seems to indicate markers like this one are numerous to the point of existing everywhere a telephone line would go.
And there are playgrounds everywhere also but that i okey🤷♂️ also private buildings are okey by Niantic🤦♂️ so where do you want to go with this? It is historical and many other of this have been accepted and this would have been too if it was not outside a frogs appartment
I don't care for the mudslinging between blue and green ingress players. Wayfarer is separate from any individual Niantic game.
As for private property, you and I are in agreement. Many folks unfortunately claim things are ineligible due to private property where in situations like this, multi unit or multi family.
That said, private property isn't enough of a defense here. It doesn't matter where a Waypoint is located if the object is not remarkable. I've seen Niantic lately refuse to restore Waypoints that do not technically meet removal criteria if so.
Comments
I have my full right to reply. If you don't want a reply, simply don't write in the first place.
You appear confused and it is very puzzling why you keep focusing on this. Are you missreading something? No one is trying to be deceitful here. Nowhere am I decribing any teammember as part of the opposed faction. On the contrary have I been completly forward with this matter, stating the portals concerned are what commonly is known as enl coach portals, i.e. reached by an enl agent from their home.
Thus we can conclude I have answered your questions even if you have left some questions directed to you unanswered. But that is fine. Since I doubt any further discussion down this path will offer anything of value to the case. You can always write me on tg instead if there is something you wish to add.
I think the best seems to agree to disagree. OP still describes the couch portal as adjacent to opposing faction. This is not true.
I forgot to mention that is was Grisatassen that wrote the first sentence and sent it to me to post it because he CBA with people with attention seeking problem to comment on the post so there You have it.
I fail to understand why my participation in this debate has anything to do with the petition at hand. I don't habitually post in the forum and rarely follow the goings on in here.
No less than five times within three months two different portals, previously cleared by Wayfarer and established in the portal network, have been removed from approximately the same location. This must be an unique "hit rate" when it comes to having a portal removed from the game. How many reports does it take to get this lucky? Or are other things than "luck" at play here?
The first portal that got removed was a metal sculpture mounted on a rock and situated about four meters from the Rikstelefon portal we are discussing here. Should that previous portal be removed, in your opinion?
There was quite a few of your team mates that gloated in comm the second time that portal got binned, as you probably recall since you were one of them. And I remember you jeering in comm when we had another object in the vincinity up for vote in Wayfarer... You seem to have strong emotions about the quality of portals and nominations around where I live, I'd say... Strong indeed. I don't see the same commitment just a few blocks away, where you have no qualms in putting your resonators in portals of lesser poi.... Other standards apply?
It is ridiculously obvious that the removal of the previous and this portal is nothing less than abuse of the Wayfarer concept. It has all to do with who can reach the portal while on the couch, right?
You guys really need to re-read eligibility, rejection and removal criteria. Keep at mind that every invalid Wayspot removal are game-neutral and subject to removal criteria.
You can "design" the board if you muster enough mates both for accepting, moving and reporting portals for removal. In this case, as the evidence shows, a legit portal -accepted on to the portal network- has been removed for the second time. And before that, another installation was taken off the network for no other real reason than spite, no less than three times. All this within a three months time. That's the issue here....
Removal requests are all handled by Niantic reviewers, not the players. But sometimes they can be wrong though (i.e. assuming a building as a PRP while it's actually a multifamily property in this thread). Hence why they open up appeal section for wrongly removed Wayspot in this forum.
Also it's not uncommon that Wayspots are appealed in this forum after being removed so many times.
To my knowledge, removals are triggered by reports. The more reports, the more attention and the more likely the review will follow the recommendations in said report.
If a portal is reported as situated on a private property, for example, the reviewing party (Niantic) through investigating by looking at a satellite image/street view on Google Maps, will go with the actions recommended by the many reports. In this case; removal, although the building by which it stands, consists of four different households. This, however, is abuse, since it is pretty clear to whoever initiates the report, that the portal objectively should be valid.
If not this one, and if Greatreaper has a point in his remark that Rikstelefon is an old and insignificant installation of no historical value, the original portal, which was a sculpture, as previously mentioned, should not be reported and taken off the network in the first place. It happened three times, however, and was gloated about in comm, to add insult to injury. Apparently some are dead set on stopping all attempts to introduce a portal at this location and one can't help to wonder why.. If I had the Nelson column mounted at the place, some would go to great lengths to downvote it in Wayfarer or, if accepted, have it removed if passed!
All else aside, in regards of Rikstelefon actually being portal material as such, other Rikstelefon plaques have been approved and are still in the network. Evidence has been produced to validate that the building is multi residential, which should qualify one of the two installations as portal. Reporting them should be regarded as abuse of the trust that comes with Wayfarer privileges.
I think we all agree that there is abuse in the reporting system - just as well as there is abuse in the nominating system.
It should be quite easy to solve, because there is such a system in place in wayfarer. When you assess portals and you have a clear discrepancy in your assessment compared to the majority, the ranking takes a hit. When it's too low, your input does not have the same merit (or at least it doesn't credit your ingame merits).
Just introduce the same for nominations and reports. If you nominate something that is not POI-worthy too many times, you lose your right to nominate. If you report a POI or request to move it and your report is denied too many times, you lose your right to report.
Thanks for reaching out, @GreatReaper-ING! We have taken another look, however, stand by our decision to retire this Wayspot.
Wait a second... Who reached out? GreatReaper didn't reach out! He has argumentet why the portal should be removed in somewhat vague terms. It is @Tim20000-ING who reaches out with an appeal to reinstate a portal that has been removed and he and @Sindaya-ING have produced evidence of the building adjacent to the object, is consisting of four households in four different apartments. On what grounds does Niantic deem the portal in question not valid to be part of the network? Is it the quality of the portal that is questionable, as Greatreaper argues, or are you under the impression the building in question is a private residence for one household? Please clarify this! In the latter case there is another object that we will ask you to reinstate as a portal to the network
Regards/G
@NianticOtoStar I would also want a clarification on why you decided to retired this waypoint. Were talking a lot of time and effort from players on both this waypoint and the statue mention in the thread.
It's now clear and proven it is not a private home. So please be so kind to explain your reasons.
Read again what @HankWolfman-PGO has said about the removal, unless any of you can give better evidences if the property is a multifamily property and not PRP. I guess Niantic doesn't satisfied enough with the evidences while the property is pretty much similiar with nearby properties in term of size.
Or answer this: the property has a basement garage if I'm not mistaken, can you tell how many cars that are parked inside?
@Sindaya-ING posted a screenshot of how many households that are registered on this building and their apartment numbers. There are three registered households today. One apartment is currently vacant and pending a tennant scheduled to move in next month. How much more evidence can you ask for, really? Google the adress Mårtensgatan 33, Råå Sweden and you will find a full list of current residents. Very simple and I don't understand what more evidence one could expect, this being a GAME and not a murder trial or matter of national security! How many cars are parked in the garage? There are none at the moment, but I guess you could fit a smaller car or a couple of bikes in there.
That said, IF what's in question here is whether the building is a single family dwelling or not! Still waiting for a clarification in this matter... @NianticOtoStar
Here is a summary list of "strong indications", previously presented in this thread, that this is a multi-family house:
* There is an intercom at the front door. (Source: Google Maps)
* There is 4 mailboxes just outside the front door (Source: Google Maps)
* There is 6 persons, above 30 years old, registered on the address (Source: Swedish population register by the Swedish Tax Agency)
* The above 6 persons are registered in 3 different apartments (Apartment 1002, 1101 and 1201) (Source: Swedish population register by the Swedish Tax Agency)
In addition to that:
* The 2 owners of the house are NOT living on the address (Source: The Swedish Land Registration Authority)
* NONE of the 6 persons on the address have the same last name (Source: Swedish population register by the Swedish Tax Agency)
Also; The portal in question, “Rikstelefon” was located on a public walkside, and was NOT inside the plot boundary of the house anyway.
See @jmansson-ING answer
@NianticOtoStar Please look at jmansson-ING post
@NianticOtoStar Still waiting for some pointers as to why this portal was rejected... Still no answer and we found your reply to Greatreaper somewhat confusing. Was this a portal of poor quality, not meeting the standards of point of interest? Or was it unclear whether the adjacent building is a one household residence or not? That matter should be sorted by now...
@NianticOtoStar Nothing like beeing ignored by staff. Well done.
@NianticOtoStar This is no good. No good at all! Please read the thread again and come back with clarifications to the questions that have been put forward in regards to this portal, or another possible portal -also removed for unclear reasons. This is not looking good at all from your end.
Is the removal based on that the object doesn't meet portal criteria or are we still in doubt as of the status of the adjacent building? Put some effort in!
Are Niantic ok with abuse of report system in order to deny agents of opposing team a couch portal? And, if so, why are rules in place to prevent this to happen?
@NianticOtoStar This has till not been answered!
@NianticOtoStar A new portal with the same standard has been accepted by the community https://intel.ingress.com/?pll=56.036579,12.709984
I would love a update from NIA!
So i just had another appeal denied. Can Nia please tell me on what ground your wont allow the portal.
It's proven that its
A) a multi family building
B) by Swedish law your allowed to enter the lawn.
C) it's a valid portal. There is no issue about personal safty. Its a quiet well lit area with low crime as it's a over middleclass.
Is it an interesting, unique place to discover while exploring?
More unique than a sandbox aka ”playground”
Somehow I doubt that. The discussion in this thread seems to indicate markers like this one are numerous to the point of existing everywhere a telephone line would go.
And there are playgrounds everywhere also but that i okey🤷♂️ also private buildings are okey by Niantic🤦♂️ so where do you want to go with this? It is historical and many other of this have been accepted and this would have been too if it was not outside a frogs appartment
I don't care for the mudslinging between blue and green ingress players. Wayfarer is separate from any individual Niantic game.
As for private property, you and I are in agreement. Many folks unfortunately claim things are ineligible due to private property where in situations like this, multi unit or multi family.
That said, private property isn't enough of a defense here. It doesn't matter where a Waypoint is located if the object is not remarkable. I've seen Niantic lately refuse to restore Waypoints that do not technically meet removal criteria if so.
Funny that niantic itself accepted it when they review it? And then removed it when ”some” mass reported it falsely🤦♂️