Waypoint nomination rejection and warning question

General Discussion
1

I’ve been playing Niantic games (Ingres, Pokemon Go) for years and recently decided I’d try to start contributing to the mapping part.

My first submission wasn’t successful, which isn’t a big deal, but the whole process left me with a sour taste and a some frustration from lack of understanding.

I received an email about violating one or more policies (Policy Violated: Generic very low severity offense), and stating that actions have been taken against it…

The detailed explanation mentioned two things:

  • lacking uniqueness or historical / cultural meaning
  • text or photo containing abuse/ridicule/harassment

From what I read on this community forum, this seems to be quite a generic answer, but I’d like to fully understand the situation here, hence a couple of questions for more experienced users:

  1. Does every submission rejection imply a warning message about policy violation ?
    I would have expected some sort of “gradual” answer, starting with a simple submission rejection notice before escalating with warning/sanctions in case of misbehavior…
    I get that in order to avoid being flooded by low quality submissions, Niantic probably has to show a heavy hand. Still, beeing threatened with a “warning”, stating that some “actions [have been] taken against it” (sanctions?) for a first attempt in good will doesn’t seem very user-friendly…

  2. Is this “Generic very low severity offense” some sort of package where they do not distinguish the rejection cases by lack of uniqueness (first reason) from offensive content (second reason), so they always state both in the explanation, or can you receive a message with only a single of those reasons listed?

In my case, the uniqueness/historical/cultural meaning issue is of course up for debate, and even though I disagree with the reviewer point of view I wouldn’t challenge their decision. But on the other hand, I’m 100% sure that there is no abuse/ridicule/harassment in the pictures or text submitted, hence my question to know if both reasons are always listed together, or if there is indeed another issue, separate from the uniqueness/interest one ?

Thanks for your views on the subject to help me correct my ways if I’m in the wrong, and maybe try again with higher chances of success (and lower risks of sanctions!).

If needed I’ll post the text & pictures involved, but I’m mostly curious about the general process, not necessarily my particular case.

2

Welcome to the forums and to wayfarer :slight_smile:

Warnings for ineligible submissions are rare. A rejection does not mean you will get a warning, but if the submission was flagged by reviewers and Niantic check to find it is extremely low quality or clearly ineligible, you may get warned about it. That warning is necessary so that you know you are going off the reservation :slight_smile:

In order to be accepted, a wayspot has to not fail any of the rejection criteria

- it has to be safely accessible to pedestrians
- it can’t be on school grounds, single-family private residential property, farmland
- it has to exist at the location given
- it has to have a reasonably accurate title and description
- the photo cannot contain licence plates, identifiable people, unnecessary animals

It also has to meet one of the key criteria

- Social - great place that assists with being social with others
- Exercise - great place that assists with exercise
- Exploration - great place to explore, that people would show to others and visit

Something can pass all the rejection reasons but still not be eligible because it simply isn’t meeting criteria. Please have a look at these for understanding what makes a good wayspot.

Eligibilty Niantic Wayfarer
Acceptance Niantic Wayfarer
Rejection Niantic Wayfarer
Also Wayspot Criteria — Wayfarer Help Center

3

Hello and welcome @euroclie

It is always interesting to hear the thoughts and experiences of new wayfinders.
I think most experienced wayfinders will say it’s whole different “game”. There is a lot of learning to do……and it doesn’t stop.
My early nominations have some success but also rejections.
So there is a whole new skill set and knowledge base to develop. And if you put that effort in you can get hooked. Because let’s face it how awesome is it to add places into games. :smiling_face_with_sunglasses:

Having a look around this forum will be very useful there will topics that you will recognise as your situation.

The great thing is the community here having been there, done that, and metaphorically got the T shirt, are keen to help and support.

A good start would be to post one of those that got rejected and might have triggered the email. We can then talk about specifics rather than generalities that might actually not get to the issues.

4

It’s not a game, it’s a passion.

5

Hey @euroclie ,

Welcome to Wayfarer and the Community Forum.

No, it doesn’t. Submissions that blatantly violate our policies and guidelines may be flagged as abusive. This submission was a low quality candidate that didn’t meet the polices and criteria.

This is not correct. The text string you see appears when a submission is flagged as abusive. The warning you have received is to let you know that the submission is not in line with the policies and to encourage you to revisit the criteria. This warning doesn’t lead to any progress on the abuse ladder and therefore will not impact your account.

It’s possible to receive a rejection without the abuse flag.

Let me know if you need any further assistance.

Best,

6

You don’t need to post these, but if you don’t understand why it was rejected, you could post screenshots for us to discuss. There is a Nomination Support section which has prompts to follow to ask for help. The “lacking uniqueness or historical / cultural meaning” rejection seems to come up when reviewers have rejected using “Generic business”. The “text or photo containing abuse/ridicule/harassment” often means something like using a third party photo - even your own photo if you posted it on a third party site - or misplacing the location.

7

Hello salixsorbus, and thanks for the very quick answer !

I’m glad to read that a rejection does not necessarily mean I’ll get a warning, this is good news. What’s bad news, though, is that I still don’t know why I got a warning ! :frowning:

You mention submission of extremely low quality or clearly ineligible for generating a warning, and again I do not feel like this is the case here.

Since elijusttrying (thanks also to you for your friendly reply) suggested I post more details about my submission to be specific instead of being generic, let’s do that:

Here’s the proposed waypoint picture, taken with my phone during submission:

pic1
pic1288×512 32.8 KB

and here’s the wider picture to give context:
pic2
pic2288×512 36.9 KB

Both pictures have never been posted anywhere else online.

The waypoint description text was this :

D'habitude, on stocke du sel dans une salorge... Celle-ci est en fait un garage, mais construit dans le style des salorges qu'on trouve à proximité des marais salants de l'île. Une bonne idée, et le résultat est esthétique ! which, in English, translates to “You usually store salt in a salorge… This one is actually a garage, but built in the style of salorges you find close to the salt marshes of the island. A good idea, and the result is eye-pleasing !”.

and the supplementary information text was:
Un garage en forme de salorge miniature... Tout à fait à sa place sur l'île de Noirmoutier ! which, in English, translates to “A garage in the shape of a miniature salorge. Perfectly appropriate in the Noirmoutier island !”

The rejection notice was:

pic3
pic3627×113 5.1 KB

The first reason given was “The text or photo contains insults, mockery, or harassment against a specific person or group.”, and is the root cause of my concern and complaint. I fail to see what part of the image or text contains an insult, mockery or harassment that deserve a warning and abuse report.

The second reason given was “The submission lacks uniqueness or historical and cultural meaning.”. That is up to debate IMHO (a salorge is a salt barn which design (black slanted walls, red roof…) is easily recognizable and specific to the salt marshes areas like the Noirmoutier island, and as far as I know this is the only such garage built in the Noirmoutier town). I was probably optimistic/biased, though, so I totally get that this submission could be rejected for that reason, which is fine even if a bit disappointing. That do not make it “extremely low quality”, though, IMHO, and I’ve the feeling a simple rejection (instead of an abuse report) would have been enough to pass the message…

If I parse the rejection criteria listed by salixsorbus, I still fail to see which one(s) I triggered (the place is accessible by pedestrians, not on private or school property, does exist, the description and title seems reasonably accurate to me, and there are no licence plates, people or animals on the pictures).

Just to be clear, I do not contest the rejection itself, but I fail to see why my submission was reported as abuse with insults/mockery/harassment involved. Until someone explains me what was offensive in my submission, I have no way to learn and move forward…

Thanks to you all for your time and efforts explaining, regardless of the outcome !

Stay safe and have fun exploring.

8

To get this out of the way, since it might be distracting, the “Abuse” rejection narrative can be flagged for a nomination for any of the following reasons

* The photo is not yours (e.g., taken from streetview, found on another website)
* The text itself is abusive
* The nomination is controversial and likely to be offensive (e.g., a mural of terrorists)
* Another nomination was abusive and all of yours have been flagged as a consequence
* The wayspot location pin is misplaced
* The wayspot is deliberately misrepresented (e..g., on school property but pretending it isn’t)
* (there may be others)

This narrative is possibly the worst text that Niantic push out to people, as it regularly causes people confusion and concern since it rarely matches the actual issue it is trying to flag. The phrasing is appalling. If you get this, please take it as meaning “I did one of the things listed above” as it means nothing more than this.

(Even worse for this submission, I cannot see a reason for it to be flagged for any of these based on the details you have provided.)

9

Provided the images and text you have posted here are what you put in your submission and the location is correct, I don’t see that this required a warning. I wouldn’t accept it, as it is only a garage, albeit in the style of a salt store. I can see that it is something someone might think is interesting and submit without malice, and that it could be thought of as something worth exploring. For me, that makes it a (very) borderline submission, not outright worthless.

However, it is likely that it is private property (specifically single-family private residential property), which includes both houses, attached land and garages (etc), which is a definite no. You might not have been aware of this or might not have realised that it is private given its position.

It actually reminds me of a bat house that I know someone tried for a submission years ago and then gave up on after getting rejected for being generic. It looked like a random building.

Nice picture by the way - the clouds really help :slight_smile:

I don’t see a lot you can take away, except that this building does meet Exploration criteria.

10

Thanks again for the detailed answer, salixsorbus !

It eases my mind to see that I’m not completely alone thinking that the submission might not have totally deserved an abuse report, and that the abuse issue was probably caused by a technicality rather than offending content. Not that I intend to dig further, or contest the rejection, I just wanted to understand the issue there, and I’m (now) fully aware that some criteria are enforced in a very strict manner.

I think I’ll keep on playing the game but let the experts handle waypoint submission, though. It seems more hassle than fun and I definitely do not appreciate Niantic’s and/or the reviewers stance on this subject. I’m disappointed by the lack of consistency throughout time (what was acceptable once may not be anymore, which makes any comparison moot, and as far as I could read Niantic seems to have a policy of not “purging” old content that would be deemed unacceptable today, which is definitely unfair).

Thanks for your time, and have fun playing Niantic’s games !

11

Removal criteria not matching Acceptance criteria is an entire topic in itself. Short answer is that as much as this is sometimes frustrating, it is the right approach to avoid ping-pongs.

Regarding submissions, finding things that aren’t already on the map which are interesting and eligible can be, and should be, fun. It isn’t just about adding things to Pogo to get more pokestops and gyms, but about adding things which people haven’t found or haven’t come across, and making them that little bit more visible.

You could try with things that are slam dunks (as much as anything can be). Getting those through might make you feel better about wayfarer. If you want to post the coordinates of this garage, people would be willing to look round to find things that look eligible and are not already on the map.

(My very first submission was an absolute slam dunk and an amazing piece of history, but I didn’t have the confidence to submit it myself since the idea of submitting things overwhelmed me, so I handed it on to someone else. It gets easier

image
image384×512 143 KB

This is a boundary marker for a plot of land in Worcestershire, UK that was given to the poor of Clerkenwell, London, 100 miles away.)

12

@euroclie have you read up on the wayfarer criteria? And do you have any questions for us about it?

A good idea to keep in mind is about how interesting something is - like would I point this out to someone visiting? Or would I visit this and take a friend there? Or is it somewhere I’d go to exercise.

The salt garage probably wouldn’t fit any of those, and you’d just go there if you needed some salt I suppose!

Don’t worry - most of us probably got rejections for our first tries, and this was just a warning, so hopefully you’re able to find some better options for your next try! Would you like anyone to help look around the area and identify if there are some good ideas to try?

13

Salut et bienvenue!

Comme les gens plus haut ont déjà mentionné, le problème n’est probablement pas que ça ressemble à une salorge, mais que c’est de la propriété privée, et cette règle est très claire dans Wayfarer. La discussion de si la proposition est valide s’arrête là malheureusement.

On ne voit pas ton placement, mais ce genre de texte peut en plus venir d’une position incorrecte.

Je suis tout à fait d’accord que le texte qui s’affiche lors d’un rejet par l’équipe n’est pas clair, particulièrement en français. Nous l’avons soulevé de très nombreuses fois.

Comme @NianticAaron a expliqué plus haut, ce message n’a aucune conséquence sur ton compte.

Noirmoutier a probablement encore des choses à offrir en termes de POIs - si tu veux partager une zone approximative, les gens ici sont en général très bons pour trouver et te conseiller des propositions éligibles via Street View / satellite, s’il en reste. Comme ça pas de risques :slight_smile:

Ou si tu as des questions sur d’autres candidatures potentielles, n’hésite également pas à les partager - on est là pour aider.

14

Hi frealafgb, thanks for you input. I did read and understand the wayfarer criteria, my issue was the abuse report and not the rejection (which I do understand).

As for submitting new & better ideas, due to the opaque abuse report system Niantic uses, I prefer to let others handle any further submissions rather than risk compromising my account.

This should/could be a fun game and contribution system, not a terror-inducing system in which you can get flagged for a supposed abuse for no reason on your first, good faith attempt.

It seems I’m not compatible with this part of the game, and much too old to stand getting threatened without any recourse, so I’ll stick to the easy and non-controversial part of the games! :slight_smile:

Thanks all for your help !

15

Merci Xenopus,

Tant que Niantic ne tient pas compte de vos retours à ce sujet (et je ne m’attends pas à ce qu’ils le fassent), je préfère pêcher par excès de prudence et m’abstenir. :anxious_face_with_sweat:

Rien dans leurs messages ne permet de faire la distinction entre un simple avertissement informel et une sanction (“we have taken actions against it” n’est pas une réponse anecdotique et bénigne), c’est le tank pour écraser une mouche sans explication, très peu pour moi, je ne veux pas risquer de voir mon compte bloqué avec juste de vagues prétextes génériques pour explication.

Cela m’a fait passer toute envie de contribuer aux waypoints… Je préfère ne rien faire que d’être traité comme un criminel potentiel.

Et je suis sûr que même sur la petite ile de Noirmoutier, il y a déjà plein d’autres contributeurs plus compétents que moi, je peux passer à autre chose et tourner la page d’une situation qui n’est agréable pour personne ! :sweat_smile:

Bon jeu et bonnes contributions !