Constant Removal of Niantic Approved Waypoints

Nomination Support
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43

Niantic take action against accounts all the time for violations of the TOS, I don’t think anyone is expecting them to act as the police.

If these were valid wayspots when submitted - and I think that’s the consensus from Wayfarers - then they should be valid wayspots now despite being vandalised. I think there are valid grounds for appealing the removal based on this. These walking trails are still walking trails, markers or not.

Perhaps look at it this way - if the accusations are true, then someone is not only destroying property but they are also degrading the quality of the Wayfarer database. We do seem to have an increasing number of complaints about wayspots being removed due to Ingress faction wars, and that impacts the players of all other Niantic games too.

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44

While I can certainly understand your frustration here, saying that the Trail markers being removed and the Wayspot being reported were both undertaken by the same person is purely circumstantial, and even in a court of law circumstantial evidence requires other evidence that proves the “matter of fact” beyond a reasonable doubt.

While it is reasonable that the trail markers were physically removed and the Wayspots were reported for removal by the same person, it is also reasonable that this was the work of two separate people. Without hard evidence either way, no conclusions can be drawn. I can certainly understand that is frustrating, you need to understand that the Wayfarer team can only pass judgment given hard evidence.

You state that it “is very clearly obvious”, but I ask that you remove yourself from this situation and consider the evidence provided. If this was another person making this claim against you, would you want the Wayfarer team to act on the word of a single player, with no evidence to back their claim?

As others have said, your best course of action here is to take this matter to the authorities and your local government to have the matter investigated and the trail markers restored. Once restored, you can resubmit them.

I wish you the best of luck

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45

I would think something as small as these markers would need an appeal to actually get removed. Have these PoI shown up here on the forum?

In my experience something like that would have to be appealed after the removal request was denied, unless it’s obviously on Private residential property, or a School. When I say obviously, it has to be obviously. Niantic is not quick in removing valid PoI, or even semi questionable PoI without presented proof.

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46

There are non-public methods of appealing or requesting removals linked from the forum header. They wouldn’t necessarily need to show up on the forums.

47

To clarify, this is only the legal standard for criminal matters in Westminster legal systems. Most administrative and civil decision-making (as Niantic’s would fall into, if we really wanted to go there) would be done on ‘a balance of probabilities’. It’s a lighter test, but one you still have to provide decent evidence for.

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48

I’ve purposely avoided in posting again in public as I could sense my frustration levels reaching a point where I could not keep my thoughts moderated. However this has now got to a point where I feel I need to share more with the community. This is very clearly targeted and vile abuse of the wayfarer system from a player I fully believe doesn’t agree with trail markers being valid POIs

For clarify all times quoted from here on are UK local time

Last Friday 4th October, I found two remaining trail markers which was I submitted and where accepted directly by the Niantic team on Saturday at roughly 0830. On the Sunday morning I decided that I would walk the complete 9km walk to the Baylham & Beyond to check any vandalism on portals which have been removed from the wayfarer database and to check on the condition on the the new portals I had submitted and approved. At roughly 0845 I walked pass one of the approved portals to see it in the same condition as I found it in the condition as I submitted it. During this walk I found a further 5 and the last remaining Baylham & Beyond markers all of which I submitted.

On Monday 7th at roughly 1215, I found one of my newly approved trail markers had been vandalised and to no shock today it has been removed from the wayfarer database.

Also yesterday I received approvals for all the remaining trail markers I’ve submitted for this beautiful trail once again directly by the wayfarer team and very alarmingly straight after work I went to visit 4 of these portals in an actual attempt to catch the individual who is going out causing this vandalism and then requesting the removals of these portals in the act however I was too late, by the time I had arrived to the first portal at roughly 1715 today (so within 17 hours of the portal going live on the Wayfarer database) these had already been vandalised. I’ve just spent the last 1.5hrs since hiding in a field to see if this person will appear at the last remaining trail marker standing within this trail. I visited that exact portal 24hrs prior and it was fine

Also today at lunchtime I had noticed the complete destruction of one of the other trail markers which after speaking to a lady who lives opposite this trail marker told me that post has been there since she moved into the house and she has lived there for 28 years.

Most alarmingly, I’ve been keeping the wayfarer team updated throughout this process on the back of the my abuse report I raised and I urged the team to take some urgent action yesterday as I knew that as soon as the remaining trail markers where published on the wayfarer database only 17 hours ago they would get vandalised, and it is of no shock that I was correct. Also a very helpful ambassador has been providing them with information as I’ve supplied it to them. All of which neither of us received any reply.

Further to this last Thursday afternoon I did a little vet on portals I’ve submitted in surrounding areas as on that lunchtime I did not want to have lunch in my local favourite hotspot due to the frustration of seeing the vandalism on my normal lunchtime walk, I decided to go to the next village up, only to find the exact same thing has happened there however with a different walking trail. Upon my vetting I’ve found a total of over 20 markers which have been vandalised in across 6 different villages all within relative close proximity. With the damage I’ve found today, I can now confirm that this total has now reached 30, and the complete trail of the Baylham & Beyond has been completely removed from existence.

I know people here will tell me that I have no firm evidence for Niantic to act, however I don’t believe this for the following reasons:

  1. The vast scope in which this vandalism is occuring, as mentioned this is over 6 villages
  2. The locations of some of these portals are in very isolated areas, by all means not accessible however not in locations you would casually walk past and notice something is not right
  3. The timescales in which these portals are being made visible on the wayfarer database to the point of vandalism being observed, as mentioned 4 trail markers have been vandalised within 17 hours of them being made visible in the intel map, no one can tell me that within this short time span that it’s been vandalised by one person and then an ingress agent has spotted it and reported it as missing

With Niantic failing to act they have let down my community and myself an avid wayfarer and something until recently I had a passion for however, I’ve now let this consume me and I’ve found myself hiding in a bush this evening in a last chance attempt to catch this person as the Wayfarer team have appeared to not to this matter seriously.

Worst of all the person who has done all of this damage can continue to play there game as the wish with Niantic giving them pinpoint locations of where they want to attack next. Me and my local and extended community want this individual removed. This is toxic, vile and disgusting behaviour and whilst he remains present within the community there is no point in myself, the local trust/charity or the local authority looking at getting any of this replaced as this person is allowed to by Niantic to continue to operate and given the full tools to locate and vandalise.

I hope the Wayfarer team will finally comment on this, as my next step is to take this to social media and tell the world how Niantic has failed me and my community.

For those interested look at the comments about this trail, I full agree with them it’s beautiful however anyone wanting to come and walk it have no markers to guide them

Great Blakenham, Baylham And The River Gipping circular, Suffolk, England - 5 Reviews, Map | AllTrails

Bravo Niantic, Bravo :clap:

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49

I am so sorry that you are encountering this behavior, but please do not put yourself in harm’s way over game locations! Just turn this over to the authorities.

I would not submit any more trail markers there if they do replace them. Don’t put yourself and the markers in jeopardy. It is sad that people behave this way.

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50

Hey,
I did think what was the point of doing the last submissions however honestly I thought I would have the full support of the wayfarer team. I kept them updated daily on what I was doing and that I would visit all portals daily so we can start pin-pointing down times of vandalism and then abuse of the wayfarer system, and they have completely failed me someone who has developed a passion for adventuring out within my community adventuring new areas and assisting them to develop an accurate database of acceptable. I never thought I would be one to go out hiking on a Sunday morning finding new locations and this game gave me a reason to do that honestly the only type of exercise I get on a weekly basis.

I still don’t understand, all the team had to do was put a temporary suspension on this players account. I’ve read through their TOS and it’s states they can suspend or terminate accounts without notice, I urged them to do something to preserve these within my community and it appears to me they ignored everything.

Also this has been reported to the police however in all honesty the only people who can do something worthwhile on this is the wayfarer team

I’ve let this consumed me and I honestly expected better from what I’ve been told is one department with Niantic which does engage with their community

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51

Before and after photos
Found today at lunchtime, been there for 28years

Was fine yesterday now looks like this

IMG_6988
IMG_69881512×2016 1.65 MB

All submitted on Sunday all as per submission

17 hours after publish to the intel map

IMG_6991
IMG_69911512×2016 1.48 MB

IMG_6992
IMG_69923024×4032 2.67 MB

IMG_6993
IMG_69932016×1512 1.57 MB

IMG_6994
IMG_69943024×4032 2.84 MB

IMG_6995
IMG_69951512×2016 1.51 MB

52

I honestly can’t say if Niantic will fix this for you but irrespective of that you can in regards to the actual trail report it to Suffolk County Council who have a legal obligation to maintain and detail PROW.

Maybe this will help?

https://www.suffolk.gov.uk/roads-and-transport/public-rights-of-way-in-suffolk/suffolk-local-access-forum/suffolk-local-access-forum-meeting-agendas-and-minutes

Stay safe and take it easy. Don’t get arrested for hanging around in bushes my friend :slight_smile:

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53

I’m already in discussions with SCC however if the player remains active what’s the point of them doing anything

I just want this player excluded from the community

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54

Completely fair.

I hope you get a positive outcome from SCC and Nia.

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55

Jesus, that person should probably get a nice extended stay in a padded room. Imagine going on a public property destruction spree over a phone game.

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56

I think you have laid your case out very well. Would be nice to see the data behind the scenes. Honestly hope that somone can take a look at this.

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57

At the risk of asking a redundant question, have you filed a report under the report abuse form above?

58

Yes and no. I’ve raised an initial abuse report from my initial concern and the start of this thread which I raised last Monday, however I might resubmit a new abuse report on the more recent observations of blatant vandalism by an ingress player to remove markers from the wayfarer database

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59

Holey moley, that’s some serious criminal damage. I would suggest that the person doing this requires some psychiatric help. They may also be dangerous if confronted.

My two cents worth - the narrative above would seem to establish beyond reasonable doubt that the submission of the wayspots is leading to another person vandalising them, and that person is then reporting them to have them removed.

Furthermore, it seems that the identity of the likely criminal is known to Niantic. I would suggest to the Niantic team that they consult with their legal department on this for advice. It may be that Niantic will need to liaise with law enforcement if they choose to pursue this, so probably worth flagging with them early to give them a heads up.

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60

Yeah agree, I have no doubt that Niantic will not be able to disclose any user details to myself. However you could argue that they might need to as a victim protection and duty of care of our community to ensure this person is removed from all socials within our community, maybe something they can coordinate through our local Ambassador? I did on Monday raise a police report and I’m awaiting some follow up from this once received I will connect them with Niantic, as to my understanding even with an online username and I assume email address the police should be able to locate individual. I’m hopeful that in one location CCTV might be available as it’s near a train crossing, and I’ve managed to recover on of the markers, I’ve bagged it up just in case.

Also I got a quote today for replacement markers, and this is around £650. However we can’t do anything while the player is still active, for me this should be a straight up termination of the players account as soon as possible

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61

Your frustration is completely justified. I’m sorry to hear this is happening to you.

I had an idea while reading through this thread, but I have not thought it through and I urge you to wait for someone else’s response before you put yourself at risk following my advice, ok?

Could you maybe hide some small cameras near signs you know are about to get vandalised, and then present the footage to the authorities? “Hey, I knew this guy was gonna do it and I thought you would like some hard evidence, maybe now you can fine him and tell him to get a new hobby?”

Again, this is an idea born of the outrage at this guy’s behaviour. Please consider it more carefully than I did as I was typing.

Best wishes

Mod Edit: Removed the inappropriate word.

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62

Seems like niantic could stop accepting these removal requests from your area - its clear from some of these vandalised images that there are still footpaths remaining - as only the circular trail markers were removed but not the footpath signs themselves

If the path remains (ie published online, marked in other ways, markers would be replaced if the nutter wasnt destroying them and causing hundreds of pounds of damage), then surely the waypoints are still valid?

I think personally at this point that Niantic are enabling this person to continue causing criminal damage by responding to their reports. They must know who is responsible from their records, and it might be a good time to stop helping them with their twisted goals.

Can you supply niantic with any documentation online that the trails still exist? If so, It would be nice if theyd just reinstate all these waypoints and warn the remover, and maybe this would take away their motivation for the criminal damage? As long as the removals continue taking place followinf a report, it encourages them to vandalise more markers

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