Invalid Wayspot Appeal: Lids lilla lekplats

[5ku994xe]

When submitting a Wayspot Appeal, make sure to include as much of the following information as possible:

• Wayspot Title: Lids lilla lekplats
• Location (lat/lon): 58.91701,16.990764
• City: Nyköping
• Country: Sweden
• Screenshot of the Rejection Email (do not include your personal information):

• Additional Information (if any):
  Similar to a previous appeal, this POI is clearly located with a fenced area which is private residential property.

The playground is located next to a single family house inside of a fenced area. This is clearly seen from the Swedish Land Surveys map of the area.

Min Karta

A recent aerial photo shows the proximity of the playground to the private house.

It was not possible for me to take a closer picture of the POI due to the fact that it is located behind a fence and on private residential property, but the picture below does provide some context as to its location. The POI is located behind the trees inside the fenced area. The previously removed POI mentioned at the top of this thread is also clearly visible.

In summary, this POI is clearly not suitable as it is located within 50 meters of a single family home behind a fence on private residential property.

[yido]

Utilizing the Swedish Land Surveys map, you can also identify that this is one larger property, and by utilizing other tools you can see who’s the landowner.
And this property is Private, which makes your appeal correct.

Even though, this building and landmark has also a historical value and is described by the local home village association.
see webpage.
Neither the less, it’s still Private property.

[amaterasu00]

I have visited this place, and might have some information about this poi.

It is very correct that the playground stands on land owned by someone.

But according to the Swedish law regarding ”right to Public Access” there is nothing that hinders anyone from visiting this place, so I think this poi should not be removed for being a private residential proprty or the lack of unsafe pedestrial access.

In short:

This poi, are located more then 40 meter away from the private residential property. (Even in only 20-30 meters would be sufficent for swedish law) See provided picture

The private property has indeed a fence around it, moust likely to show the boarders of the property and to protect the area from being dearfood.

But regarding the fence, in Sweden you have the right to enter such place.

See 3.2 page 25 in the link to how allemansrätten are applied.

The fence also has several gates according to those who lives in the propery, (wich I have been in contact with) and they also provided me with a geotagged photo of one of the gates, thats located approximate 40 meters away from the residential property.

Since the poi isnt located in a private residential property and its possible to safely enter this playground by foot, without trespassing a private residential property or disturbing a ”peace-at-homezone” I think the poi is valid, since its a ”great place for both exercise” (for children) and a ”great place to be social with others”.

Note:

Ofc it might be other reasons for the poi to be removed, like if the owner of the property would contact niantic to have the poi removed, but that is not the reason behind this appeal.

I might however be totally wrong, this is only my opinion and my interpretation of how the laws in Sweden applied, as well as the regulation of wayfarer chriterias.

Longer version:

Before explaining my reasoning, I think its very important to separate some terms from being mixed up.

I choose to write this because the laws can be different in other countries, and also since it sometimes not known by other wayfarers even in Sweden and I dont want any miss understandings since it might give birth to conflicts.

Private proptery

Means the ground is not owned by region (kommun) or state, but owned by one or several individuals.

Private RESIDENTIAL property

Means a house where someone lives, (in moust cases global, only one houshold)

Note: a private residential property in Sweden doesnt have to be located on private property, the ground it self could be ”leased” from the state or region.

Yard, backyard, garden,

Or as called in Sweden ”tomt”.

”Tomt” have two definitions in swedish.

”Tomt” could be defined as the total piece of a private property owned by someone and it could be in different sizes. In Sweden the average ”tomt” is approximate 700-1000 sqm.

The private property in this particular case, ”Skogshyddan” is larger then the average private properties and has the area of 25013 sqm. (According to hitta.se)

”Tomt” could also be defined as small piece of ground, located close to the house, often used as a garden or at least viewed to be within the the zone of a familys private life, part of their home. Or as called in Sweden, within the ”peace-at-homezone”.

Note:

According to rules of wayfarer, a poi CAN’T be located on a private residential property, but i CAN be located on a private property.

The poi must be safe to access for pedestrians without having to enter a private residential property.

A poi could be deemed invalid as private residential property, EVEN if its located on public ground. If the poi its located in such way that it causes a disturbance for people living in a private residential property closely located to the poi.

This is moust likely why poi located within 40 meters from a house should be reviewed with caution.

Lots of poi, (at least in Sweden) are located on private owned properties but moust people are not aware of it, since they dont have to think about if the forest are owned by a person or the state, ”allemansrätten” gives them permission to enter.

Why this POI should not be viewed as private residential property:

In Swedish law, the definition of ”tomt” has no designated area when it comes to ”tomt” as in the small ground surrounding the house.

When the law is applied the term of ”peace-at-homezone” is used.

The ”peace-at-homezone” normaly defined as within 20-30 meters radius of a ”residential building”. Wich would mean an area of approximate 2826 sqm.

The average size of a private property is 700-1000 sqm, and thats why in majority of the cases in Sweden, a playground on someones ”tomt” cant be poi, since its within the ”peace-at-homezone” and cant be accessed without disturbances for the people living in the private residential property.

But in this particular case, the private property is not the average size but 25013 sqm, wich means 22187 sqm of the property is accessable for everyone with support of the ”allemansrätten”, since its not part of the ”peace-at-homezone”.

The poi is located outside of the ”peace-at-homezone” and the fence has several gates and some of them are possible to access outside of the ”peace-at-homezone”.

This however is not common knowledge for everyone, so I dont think the author if this topic means any harm and I can understand his statement since normaly a playground at someones ”tomt” cant be poi.

You cant enter someones private garden and eat ther apples, but if the private property is big enoght (like in this case”) you can actually enter and pick apples, as long as you dont get any closer of the residential property then 30 meter. But also note, this is in Sweden and other countries might have totally different rules! So dont go eating someones apples without checking the laws of the country first!

Note:

About ”Allemansrätten”, Swedish law regarding ”right to Public Access:

Allemansrätten have been discussed in other topics on waywarer. Its mentioned in the Constitution Swedish, 2 chapter 15 §.

Link to a guide on how the law are applied.

Links:

Allemansrätten

978-91-620-8902-3.pdf

Hitta.se

https://www.hitta.se/södermanlands+län/nyköping/lid+örsta+skogshyddan+1/område/58.91649:16.99039

[5ku994xe]

This is very clearly private residential property. Just because the mass produce playground is outside of the 40 m radius does not mean that it is not considered to be within the zone of private residential property, which Swedish law (not Niantic’s rules) makes clear is variable. What the standpoint of Swedish law here is irrelevant. What matter is the guidance of Niantic, not the Swedish jurisprudence.

In this case, Niantic has provided this guidance:

Portals on single-family private residential property are not allowed

This is a playground set purchased and built on a single-family’s yard. It makes no difference there is a gate or that it is more than 40m from their house. It is located on their private residential property.

From the current in-game photo, you can clearly see a fence from the perspective of the property owners house. This would indicate to to me and most others that this is a private area which should be protected. It is thus not even really debatable under Swedish law, much less Niantic’s guidance, that this POI is intended to be accessible for everyone.

The arguments you have provided @amaterasu00 are purely technical and do not reference Niantic’s own guidance. Whether a POI is located on private residential property is very much a “feeling” not just a number of meters. In this case, it is very clearly private residential property and not a playground intended for the community.

[amaterasu00]

Poi on private residential properties are not allowed. But does the playground stand on private residential property or private property?
How far does the residential property stretch? In the eyes of Swedish laws, its about 20-30 meters, and if I have understood correcty about 40 meters radius according to wayfarer.

You are correct regarding the feeling, abd people tends to enter this property to amobg other things pick chantarells.

If the playground is massproduced? I dont think so based on personal information about the playground. But if making a search with googlelens you will not find any immediatly matching objects, and that indicates that the playground maybe not that massproduced? Also several simular playgrounds does exist and in places where children from different families uses them at the same time. And that might indicate that the playground might not be intended for a single households usage. But ofc some families have really luxuary playgrounds for only one household as well. So maybe not very clear statement from my side.

[5ku994xe]

Maybe you can post a picture from the other angle showing the single family house?

It is also worth pointing out that the POI is in the wrong location. From your in game picture, you can see that the POI is located inside the forest. However, the POI itself is further to the south and within 40 of the private family home.

See the attached picture for a better clarity.

[amaterasu00]

It might be located a little bit out of place, I dont know since it was a longtime ago I visited this poi. Lots of things is also possible to have changed, but are there any signs saying privat property, do no enter? Because otherwise I would say ”allemansrätten”/ ”freedom to roam” woud apply, wich makes this place accessabel for anyone by foot.
You might not be allowed to make a camp, light a fire or start to plant your own vegetables on the ground, but to visit and explore no problem.

[5ku994xe]

Yes ,it is clearly located out of place, and I have been there recently. It is misplaced in the forest and not on the correct location which is visible in the aerial photo. The playground is is located on a family’s yard. Exploring someones yard is not even acceptable in Sweden where tresspassing rules are perhaps less lenient than other places.

The only thing which really matters is this a playground located on private residential property and is therefore not eligible.

Linking the guidance here which explains it quite clearly (emphasis is mine):

Playgrounds meet the criteria for exercise, exploration, and socialization, and as long as they are not located on single-family private residential property or K-12 schools can be considered eligible.

It strains credulity that this could possibly not be considered to be private residential property of a single-family house.

[amaterasu00]

Yes I am aware, but I also would not call the place a single familys residential property. Its very close to a residential property but in my opinion its located outside of the residential property, but ofc located in a private non residential property. And that is what I asume Niantic will have to decide upon. If the place is to be regarded a residential property or not.
I am also aware of that this playground is used by children whos not related to the owner of this property. And that would not be possible if this was a residential property, as well as no sign around thats saying private property so by swedish law this would not fall under trespassing if someone visited.

[5ku994xe]

@amaterasu00 you can obtain from the Swedish property register that this is a single family home.

We are not discussing Swedish jurisprudence here which you keep referring to. The issue at stake is whether this is “private residential property”. My opinion is that it is, since it is connected and very close to a single family house. There is a yard with grass which is mowed. Should one be at the playground in the middle of the night, you would clearly be too close to the house to be considered “exploring”. There are private articles strewn about. Since you seem to have intimate knowledge of the place (that non-family members play there), you have implicitly acknowledged that it is a single family residence. Whether non-family members play there or not is immaterial. It is still a residence of a family who have built a playground on their yard. This is not an eligible POI under Niantic’s own rules.

[elijustrying]

I think there has been plenty of points made about this location. Lots for the Wayfarer Team to read. So if you can now be patient someone will look into the case.

[NianticAtlas]

Thanks for the appeal, @5ku994xe. After reviewing the additional evidence provided, we’ve decided to retire the Wayspot in question.