Invalid(?) wayspots: A block long mural with multiple wayspots

[nexushoratio]

This is a tricky one, not only because the mural is so long, but the design has the various subjects each in their own “archway”.

Thinking it should be a single wayspot, I submitted two reports about being duplicates. One was accepted (Hayward Owl Mural, not yet removed) and one rejected (Mountain Lion Mural). The intent was to dedupe them against the City of Hayward Sign and eventually add more info and rename.

Whatever the final disposition should be, it should be consistent across all three wayspots.

• Wayspot Title:
  • Mountain Lion Mural
  • City of Hayward Sign
  • Hayward Owl Mural
• Location (lat/lon):
  • 37.629526,-122.046498
  • 37.62923,-122.046229
  • 37.629062,-122.045953
• City: Hayward, CA
• Country: US
• Screenshot of the Rejection Email (do not include your personal information):

• Additional Information (if any):

The mural was painted by a local resident (who did several in the city) in 2015: https://tricityvoice.com/archives/2016/TCV-160202.pdf The article is on the last page of that issue.

Photo from the issue:

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Current Lion image:

Current Sign:

Current Owl:

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One street view:

Middle street view (signs are often washed out on street view):

Another street view:

A better view of the sign:

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The help at Forum Criteria Discussions Library — Wayfarer Help Center states:

Murals are great works of art and therefore eligible along with street art. Each mural should be a single Wayspot unless it has sections that tell a distinct enough story or are physically separate.

From my reading of that, this should be a single wayspot, not three. Or, more perhaps, either one or 19.

Anyway, I think either either Mountain Lion Mural should be removed OR Hayward Owl Mural restored.

If the latter, I suppose I should make the trip up there and nominate the other 16 images, just to be complete. Actually, I suppose either way, I should visit and get some panoramic style shots.

[eneeoh]

A claim that all of these disparate subjects are a single mural despite each one being in a separate discontinuous arch doesn’t seem right or fair. Which aspect of the Snowy Owl would cause the Skunk to be ineligible?

Nobody is obliged to nominate all of the potential spots, though. If they are clever about it, a nominator can probably get one each to fit a number of L17 cells for PoGo, and then add more to pad out the 20-meter rule for Ingress. They could then fill in more for completeness or for future use.

[cyndiepooh]

I agree with @eneeoh that each of these appears to be works of art that stand on their own merit. I would want to visit each and every one.

[MargariteDVille]

@nexushoratio I love how you come up with interesting scenarios, and bring them to us to discuss.

I agree these are fine for separate Wayspots. Even if they weren’t in arches. They’re different subjects. I would only vote against one for the painted name of the place (Howard), as I don’t think that’s art.

[nexushoratio]

@MargariteDVille

I would only vote against one for the painted name of the place (Howard), as I don’t think that’s art

But, it’s a sign! Aren’t generic community signs encouraged right now? <sarcasm/>

[nexushoratio]

@eneeoh

A claim that all of these disparate subjects are a single mural despite each one being in a separate discontinuous arch doesn’t seem right or fair.

If the artist counts it as one mural, shouldn’t that be the overriding decision?

The city also counts it as a single mural:

Story Map Shortlist

Scroll down on the left, looking for Small World: Wildlife in the Fast Lane.

That description reads:

“This piece was inspired by the wildlife found in Garin Park and the Hayward Hills. These animals look out from their natural habitats at these big metal machines zooming by and wonder where they came from. The mural educates commuters passing by of the beauty and wildlife unseen nearby.” - Suzanne Gayle, Artist

Also, I believe that the “arches” are paintings, not physical. Though the wall segments appear to be physical.

In that same collection (and same artist), there is Wildcat Habitat: Sunrise and Sunset One mural or multiple?

And this one, which is on multiple wall segments Book-to-Action:

Oh, another by Gayle, Hayward Streetscape:

And another by Gayle (I said they did a lot!), Hayward High: Past and Present Two subjects, but this time separated by a line at an angle rather than vertical (ignore the fact that it is a high school for this discussion):

This one is obviously broken up, but, on piece or art, or multiple? Ohlone Indian Tribe Basket Pattern:

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Some from an album maintained by Hayward on Flickr:

(pushing the discussion a bit, but can be argued multiple subjects):

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If a single utility artbox has different scenes on four sides, is that one piece, or multiple? For instance, now back in San Jose (actually, only three sides painted on this one):

I did one at the local library that was 27 different sidewalk insets, that the artist consists of one piece. I submitted it as one wayspot with 27+ different images:

So, you can probably imagine which side of the argument I tend to fall on. :->

[nexushoratio]

@cyndiepooh

I would want to visit each and every one.

That’s easy. It’s one long block, 275 feet. That would be roughly 13ft per subject, 28 ft for the sign (it looks about double of the rest). That’s 4-5 steps per archway.

They don’t have to be separate wayspots to encourage a visit.

[nexushoratio]

Hah. I also found a portal my partner and I submitted back in 2014. We discussed this subject back then and decided on a single portal.

Now, our argument at the time was Ingress’ distance rule, and we knew we could not get all of the pieces approved, so rather than pick and choose which would get approved, it was easier to treat the piece as one item instead of multiple.

So, maybe that discussion 10 years ago impacts my thinking today. But it is definitely not new. :->

[nexushoratio]

Today’s sync kicked in.

RIP Hayward Owl Mural

[NianticAtlas]

Thanks for the appeal, @nexushoratio. After reviewing the additional evidence provided, we’ve decided to retire the Wayspot “Hayward Owl Mural”. We took another look at the other 2 Wayspots in question and decided that they do not meet our criteria for removal at this time.

[nexushoratio]

That decision makes no sense to me.

How it is possible that Hayward Owl Mural should be retired but Mountain Lion Mural?

What difference are you seeing that would cause them to be treated differently?