Wayspot Removal Appeal: Another chain franchise

When submitting a Wayspot Appeal, make sure to include as much of the following information as possible:

  • Wayspot Title: Pancheros Mexican Grill

  • Location (lat/lon): 46.832409, -100.811044

  • City: Bismarck

  • Country: USA

  • Screenshot of the Rejection Email (do not include your personal information):

  • Additional Information (if any): If novice Wayfinders are submitting stuff like this and it’s getting approved, and then removals are rejected, next a bunch of Taco Bell and Qdoba Wayspots are gonna start popping up. In the report I clearly stated that Pancheros is a chain franchise and provided both the website and the Wiki page to back that up, but whoever reviewed it (AI or a real person) clearly didn’t take anything I said seriously.

    https://pancheros.com

    Pancheros Mexican Grill - Wikipedia

    “As of 2024, the chain has over 70 locations in 13 states, with a strong presence in the Midwest and expanding into the Northeast.”

Unfortunately, this doesn’t qualify for removal.

Removal criteria are much more restrictive than acceptance criteria. To be removed, a wayspot must meet one of the following (deduced from Niantic comments):

  • no longer exists, never existed, fake etc
  • not safely accessible, on SFPRP, school grounds, blocking emergency services etc
  • be definitely against criteria

As a restaurant, this is potentially eligible and therefore not definitely against criteria. It might be that the submitter showed something that made it actually eligible, although the description suggests they didn’t.

Quando un pokestop viene cancellato dopo anni , ne risente anche colui che l’ha proposto ? O non ci sono sanzioni?

Onestamente mi sto pentendo di aver creato più di 40 pokestop nella mia città . Al momento ci sono tutti , ma se un domani dovessero cambiare idea , potrei ricevere il mio ban definitivo ?

There are no penalties on the original submitter when a wayspot is removed.

So if someone goes and gets a bunch of Burger Kings approved, we just ignore it?

And aren’t chain franchises definitely ineligible? Or have the goal posts been moved yet again?

They are not definitely ineligible and I am not sure they ever were. Reviewers might have seen them as strictly ineligible (generic business) but this doesn’t mean the reviewers were correct.

A chain restaurant can have something at it that makes it eligible as a point of exploration, such as a unique piece of art (or even a community noticeboard). The submitter might submit the restaurant and use this as the qualification.

It might also be a local hotspot if it’s the only restaurant in town, which could also make it eligible.

Maybe I’m interpreting this wrong then.

It’s a grey area. The qualifier there is “is not locally unique” which is not precise.

Certainly if I come across a chain restaurant, I am immediately going to be suspicious and if the submitter has not provided anything to justify it, then it is an easy reject, but it isn’t an automatic reject on seeing a chain restaurant.

Also, if a lot of chain restaurants appear in an area as approved wayspots, this could be evidence of abuse. One, no. Lots, possibly.

Having unique art or a play area could make it eligible as it is not just a generic business, chain or franchise.

But as the Wayspot clearly states, it’s for the restaurant, and not a piece of art or outdoor seating area, which I’ve approved plenty of times when I’ve run across something like that in voting, even at a chain franchise. The city is big enough to have dozens of locally owned unique restaurants that are Wayspots, hence why I don’t see why an ineligible chain restaurant was approved, other than inexperienced voters who just approve everything.

That’s exactly why it was approved (the alternative is deliberate abuse, but inexperienced wayfarers is more likely).

The discrepancy between acceptance criteria and removal criteria is the block once that has happened.

Hi, @EricND1989! We took another look at the Wayspot in question and decided that it does not meet our criteria for removal at this time.

LOL

All right. I’m done trying to understand the flip-flopping rules of Wayfarer. Why even have a list of acceptance and rejection criteria if people aren’t going to follow it and nothing is going to be done about people not following it?

You’ve got people who have been trying to follow these obscure rules for the past 7 years, who have been actively trying to help newcomers in their city understand what’s acceptable and what’s not, and then they see all this stuff from the rejection list get approved and become even more confused as to why the rule makers choose to ignore it.

People come in here and ask “Why did my eligible submission get denied, it’s on the list of acceptance criteria?” And the mob responds “Well you didn’t do a good job of describing why it should be accepted.” And then they ask “Why did this apartment sign with no description get approved?” and get similar responses to those in this thread, making excuses as to why it did and why it’s not going to be removed.

I had the same issue a few months ago trying to get a unique NON-CHAIN restaurant approved and questioned the inconsistency here after the appeal was rejected and people were more than happy to tell me why it wasn’t a good submission (it did eventually get approved after passing a second appeal), but now here a mass-produced chain restaurant is all fine and dandy, because just MAYBE it’s the only hang-out restaurant around (it’s not) and won’t be removed because oh well.

I’ve had close to 500 nominations approved since I started doing this in late 2019, with very few rejections. My Wayfarer rating is at 36,986 points and even prior to this new rating system, I was consistently at the highest rating for agreements. If something would clearly meet the listed rejection criteria in the Criteria tab on the Wayfarer website, I don’t nominate it or accept it in voting. If it’s questionable and not specifically mentioned, I may try to nominate it just to see what happens, but if it fails I’ll usually just let it go. In voting, I’ll use the skip button if I’m not sure. If I know it 100% meets the listed criteria, I don’t give up until my nomination goes through.

I don’t dig through the forums to try and find all the obscure rules that are made in here about what’s acceptable (e.g. trail markers that are nothing but dots on a tree) or what’s unacceptable (e.g. disc golf tees that have all kinds of writing on them, essentially the same thing as a trail marker). I did a disc golf course once, five years ago. Pretty much every one was approved through Niantic voting (yes, it had the Niantic balloon logo next to it when it was in voting) or through appeal. So I was conflicted when I discovered threads on the forums where people were vehemently against individual tees, enough that I decided I never wanted to attempt it again, seeing how people actively report them, and, unlike this CHAIN FRANCHISE FROM THE REJECTION CRITERIA LIST that I reported here, they are rapidly removed. I’ve also gotten to the point where I’ll reject them in voting just to go with the flow.

I guess from now on, if I see a clearly ineligible Wayspot that’s not on private property, not in a dangerous location or not non-existent, I’m just going to ignore it. I’ll 100% reject it if I see it in voting, but if it gets approved, oh well. I’ll gladly live with a stop at Burger King or Olive Garden (that represents the restaurants themselves and not a piece of art or picnic area at the locations) if that eventually happens. When these types of Wayspots are allowed to stay, they’re open invitations for others like them.

Rant over. Carry on. Tell me why I’m wrong. It’s what people on the forums love to do.

Removal criteria are stricter from nomination criteria. A lot of thing in grey area usually remain even if its reported as long its not problematic like dangerous or blatantly ineligible.

Chain restaurant itself technically can fit socialize category . Since niantic staff already make his statement i think you should let it go

In that second paragraph, replace “chain restaurant” with “disc golf tee” and “socialize category” with “physical activity category”.

But yeah okay, I’ll let it go.

Niantic already make clarification about golf.

Well the rule is there for safety reason. Personally i just accept it.

No problem with having a rant. :smiling_face_with_sunglasses:
Yep, the difference between acceptance and removal criteria is a point of frustration for wayfinders.
I have been there, and no doubt will be there again. :thinking:
There does need to be some friction in the system regarding removal, it shouldn’t be too simple - it can be misused - but it shouldn’t in my view be a major pain point.
In the end we have accept the wayfarer teams decisions on specific cases. As wayfinders we can draw the teams attention to a wayspot by reporting it, it’s not our decision to remove.
By contrast accepting a new wayspot is something where Wayfinders are involved in the decision (and I include creating the submission to put before others) with a few exceptions (Niantic voting, appeals) it is our understanding and votes that matter.
The criteria clarification collection is where the acceptance criteria are teased out. Discussions between wayfinders are just that, they are needed as on a global scale there are a lot of grey areas. What they do allow is for self help in applying the basics of the criteria and the clarifications, to specific instances. Those community discussions help clarify thinking and some misinterpretations, there are shared differences of opinion. They don’t set new official “rules”.

If you search through here, you will find many examples where I have said that I believe something is a bad decision. I have asked for specifics on the frustrating removal criteria, and have been told that is for internal use.

I agree with your point here, too.

Maybe it is time to have another “criteria refresh” like the one in 2020. I have been thinking about this seriously for a while now. The refresh was done then because: “We found that there was simply too much historical knowledge for reviewers to hold onto to be reliable and to make the review process simple and enjoyable.” It looks like we are at that point again now to me.

Okay, rant over here, too. If they want every chain restaurant and neighborhood sign in game, I am happy to oblige. I just need to know what they want me to use these nominations on.
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Purtroppo è così che funziona , per loro è un hobby