Another wrong Appeal Team Decision - now followed by a warning mail :-(

[HikeLadyLDK]

Just had an Appeal coming back, and I’m really dissatisfied with the outcome.

Here it is:

This is a permanent, well-maintained hiking trail. Trail markings are regularly checked and renewed as needed, and the trails are always kept passable (which isn’t so important here, as the trail runs along a road). Hiking trails are excellent POIs because they encourage group hiking and exploration. The location of the POI can be verified using the street sign in the surrounding photo. It can also be verified using these maps: Waymarked Trails - Hiking – Der Lahn-Dill-Bergland-Marathon | GPS Wanderatlas The reason for rejection, “URL in the description,” is ridiculous, as the URLs with the hiking maps are provided in the additional information, not in the description. The description also contains no spelling errors and is accurate. I think the people who reviewed this should receive an email informing them of their error. I find this decision completely incomprehensible. I would therefore like to request that the submission be reviewed again.

The Lahn-Dill-Bergland Marathon is a marathon route through the Lahn-Dill-Bergland region. The route is also designated as a permanent hiking trail.

Maps of the Trail: Waymarked Trails - Hiking – Der Lahn-Dill-Bergland-Marathon | GPS Wanderatlas

The reasons for rejection changed after the Appeal, and whoever in the Team decided that my Submission contained “abusive, demeaning or harrasing content towards a person or group” should… well i would say things that are really not nice, but i stay with: READ AGAIN AND EXPLAIN!

There is NOTHING in my submission that would warrant that, and it is not the first time something like this happened.

I would have accepted that the Picture isn’t perfect, but thats about it.

Why did the Team decide that a Trailmarker, wich refers to a trail, is “a sticker wich seems temporary”? I can accept that mistakes can happen, but that’s actually an extremely strong case of a rejection that I can not and will not accept. This wasted an appeal, wich I absolutely need, for a decision wich is on so many levels false, I can’t actually believe someone in the Team wrote this.

Even if the rejection reason of the Title or text containing “abusive, demeaning or harrasing content towards a person or group” was made by the community, not the Team, the Team should have corrected the decision and send out Emails to everyone voting on this, because flagging a submission like this this way is clearly abusive reviewing with malicious intend.

This can not stand. I’m actually mad about it, and I would love to have a widespread rant here in the Forums, but i force myself to be as constructive as possible.

@NianticAaron please have a third look on this and, if applicable, revert this decision.

Furthermore I’d suggest sending educational emails to reviewers who reviewed this wrongly (and maybe eben abusively) and to educate the Team member who decided this.

[AliceWonder1511]

I only want to add that rejection reasons if there’re more than two will show with every opening diffrent (first two → next opening next two). So they haven’t really changed, there’ve been more than two given

[HikeLadyLDK]

Thanks for the Info. That’s actually helpful and I take back everything regarding this i said about the Team, as I assumed the new rejection reasons would be because this was what the team decided.

Anyways, this would mean that this really shows malicious intend from reviewers, because stating something like this would not only be a rejection because someone doesn’t like hike trails as wayspots, it would show that people are willing to state that I upload content wich abuses wayfarer to demean people or groups of people. All the more reason to send out educational Emails to those people, as this is not the first time this happened in an Appeals decision, and therefore there definitely are people out there, who, by malicious intend, review my submissions (or more accurately: Hike trail submissions in general) as something offensive, maybe even with the intend that submitters get punished for uploading them.

I think people who do review Hike Trails like this should see consequences for doing so, because I can not think of any reason to make false statements like this in reviewing other than harming people who upload hike trails. No matter if its bots or people reviewing this way, it’s certainly abusive reviewing then and I really hope there will be consequences.

[nanfah131213]

I have question a little bit. I saw the word “the reject reason was changed after appeal.”
How can we explain in the new reject reason? Because of we can send appeal only 1 time in the system.

Thanks for every answers

[HikeLadyLDK]

I guess we actually can’t.

Because we can not appeal appeal decision by other means then by posting appeal decisions here and hope for the best.

[pokemaster4u2]

You can always submit the wayspot again. From what I have seen, it looks like a valid submission. As the reviewers cannot see who submitted the wayspot in the first place, I guess it is just bad luck. To be honest, if it wasn’t for this forum, I also wouldn’t have known that stickers may be considered as permanent trail markers.

[HikeLadyLDK]

I don’t think it was personally against me, but against Hike Trails as Waymarkers.

Another thing that should be considered is, that Stickers as Trailmarkers are extremely common in germany, and it should be known to most german people that this is how trails are marked here.

But its not only that, I’m used to this common misconception by the community, its also that recently new rejection reasons appear frequently, like “URL in description” when its only in the supporting info or things like “hostile towards a person or group” wich lead me to the assumption that what’s happening here is actually abuse.

Also: If people do not know how to review trailmarkers, theres always the possibility to vote “I don’t know” or to just skip the nomination. Purposefully chosing wrong rejection reasons on valid wayspots is not an option that should be acceptable.

[pokemaster4u2]

The problem I guess is, that people think they do know. A lot of people think that the trailmarkers are non disctinct, but they are usually wrong, as it is about the trail and not the marker itself.

To be honest, I really don’t like most of the pictures of trail markers, but in 80% I do approve them (the remaining 20% is usually unsafe for pedestrians, incorrect location, or temporary trail).

[HikeLadyLDK]

I agree that I do not like closeup pictures of Trailmarkers too, but its the safest way to get them through the System.

I definitely would prefer pictures like this as wayspot pictures for Hike trails:

and then a closeup of the marker as supporting Info, where you can see the trail name and other Info (like who is maintaining the trail, wehere it leads, etc.)

Also again: When it comes to “not distinct” rejections, i do assume that people think they know but actually don’t.

But when it comes to rejection reason like in this case (demeaning toweards a person or group), I can n ot think of a reason why this should be just a mistake because people don’t actually know. It clearly shows some kind of abuse or hatred towards hike trails in general, where ever that might come from.

Also we are talking about an appeals decision here, and the Team certainly should know better.

[kawin240]

Another thing that should be considered is, that Stickers as Trailmarkers are extremely common in germany, and it should be known to most german people that this is how trails are marked here.

That’s extremely region dependant. Mine still uses mostly wooden tablets and signs, which will be replaced with metal signs and stickers over the next 20 years or so for example. I would not say that stickers are common in appearance or knowledge country-wide, at least for the time being.
Or maybe my region and the neighbours are just very behind on things

[HikeLadyLDK]

Well, it certainly depends on the Trail.

Most trails under the Roof of the German Hiking Association use a mix of plastic plaques, stickers and painted markers. those are about 200.000km of Hike trails around germany, wich is the vast majority.

There are, of course, other Hike trails who do not follow this tradition. We have hike trails with wooden signs here in my town too, those belong to the local Animal Park. Also there are trails maintained by other Associations, or by communal governments or alike. Another example in my region is a trail who informs about our over 100 years old network of Hydroelectric power stations, wich uses metal signs.

Anyways, Hike trails using stickers, plaques and painted markers are the majority of trailmarkers around germany. Here’s a video where the “Deutscher Wanderveband”, an association where most “Wandervereine” (Hiking associations) in germany work together, informs how they maintain and mark their vast Hike trail Network: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84EryF7hwo4&t=1s

So the niche case is actually trails marked in other ways than with stickers, plastic plaques or painted signs.

[HikeLadyLDK]

Seems theres even more to it…

Just got an E-Mail with a warning regarding this particular Nomination.

As this also is not the first time this happened Someone in the Appeals team is sending out warnings for Hike Trail Submissions after wrongly rejecting Appeals. This needs to stop.

Not only to my Nominaations get wrongfully rejected, then again wrongfully rejected by the appeals team, it even leads to Warning E-Mails. The second Time now, and even last time it was reverted here on the Forums.

How much more inconvenient and dangerous can one make submitting Hike Trails?

Anyways, I’m going to appeal this decision, and, if its not reverted, come back here.

[AliceWonder1511]

My appeal was also rejected “this trail sign is ineligible”, it was a painted one.
I hope you get the warning reversed

[frealafgb]

@HikeLadyLDK I had a “sticker” accepted on appeal a while back. All trails have been very hit and miss on appeal for me, but I thought I’d show this so we can see how inconsistent it is

Sticker style markers often last LONGER than other forms of marker. The trail is also permanent regardless of the style of the marker, and a degraded marker would be replaced with a new one. So this arguement makes absolutely no sense to me.

I hope your warning is removed and your appeal accepted. I never get my incorrect appeals looked at here - I’m always ignored - but I hope you have some luck today

[Mystogan5097]

Generic Very Low Severity is an educational email. You won’t go any further on strikes.

[HikeLadyLDK]

Be sure, if that warning stands, I’m going to make a ruccus here.

I’m not getting accused of harrasing and ridicule people. This was actually a rejection reason on the first time this happened as well, and I believe this was the reason for - as of now - two investigations into my account. They didnt find that, but still sent out warnings.

I want to make clear that such behaviour on a public Forum (like publicly visible wayspots) would be a crime (punishable by prison time) in germany (“Volksverhetzung”) and german reviewers using this rejection reason know that with great certainty.

I’m certainly not falling silent as long as reviewers are allowed to throw around accusations like this and succed with it by getting out warnings (and if I didn’t appeal the last one, this one would maybe even be a 30 day ban or at least a warning)

Its not me who needs to be educated, its malicious reviewers and the Appeals Team.

And it has to happen. Not backing down here.

Sorry if I’m no longer on the max of beeing constructive and respectful. I’m pissed. Big Time.

[frealafgb]

I can understand being annoyed. I was very annoyed when the appeal team rejected a hotel bar with a children’s food menu as an adult oriented business and a pedestrian footbridge as having no pedestrian access.

I hope youre able to get a staff member to contact you to sort things out

[HikeLadyLDK]

Thanks. First I wait for the decision on the Appeal of the warning. I’ll share the outcome here.

[TjoeMi]

Do you have something like this?

If you dont, then the email is probably just educational email.
But if you do have it, its 1st strike from abuse ladder system. You will still able to play as usual. Its just warning pop out everytime you login.

[HikeLadyLDK]

Nope, don’t have this. So at least that’s is kind of OK.

Anyways, I stand by my opinion that I am not the one who needs to be educated here.