I just got the answer to an Appeal i submitted, and i’m actually not pleased with it, because I feel I have not been listened to:
Title: Westerwaldsteig Windelbachtal
Here, the Westerwaldsteig passes the Windelbachtal
The Westerwaldsteig is a hike trail crossing multiple regions, wich at this point passes the Windelbachtal- Hike Trails are good POI, because they invite to hike together and to explore. The existence of the trail as well as a trail map can be found here: WesterwaldSteig
Translation: I would like to contradict this community decision. Hiking trails, and their markings, are permanent objects that are by no means seasonal or temporary. Just because the path here is somewhat narrower and covered in leaves (which doesn’t affect the quality of the walk), I think it’s a gross exaggeration to doubt safe access, given that this is a well-known premium hiking trail. The Westerwaldsteig is a supra-regional hiking trail of particular importance, and the area around Herborn is a premium hiking area with many trails running through it. This fact should also be evident on the Lightship map. Unfortunately, I often find that such painted markings are often rejected by the team, which is why I would like to explain something here: The paint is a very durable and weatherproof paint that will last for many years. It grows with the tree, expanding as it does grow, and thus remains visible for a long time (and, like all other markings, would be replaced when damaged). There are special stencils for each hiking trail, which trained members of hiking clubs receive to mark the trails with special paint. Painted markings are becoming increasingly popular, as plastic or metal plaques have to be nailed into the tree. This makes them less durable because they can tear as the tree grows. They also provide entry points for bacteria and fungi, which can damage the tree. Such markings are therefore not only visually appealing, they also serve to protect the trees. I found evidence of the durability of such markings on another hiking trail and hope this makes it clear that these markings are by no means weathering quickly: Imgur: The magic of the Internet This picture clearly shows how the marking grew with the tree over many years and was later replaced when it became too faded. Even now, however, it is still clearly visible. I understand that one might assume that wayfinders could simply paint such markings anywhere, which is why it is of course clear that a trail map should be submitted in addition, which is what I did. (WesterwaldSteig) This way, you can clearly verify that this marking is on the hiking trail, and falsifying it is therefore no longer attractive, since you should naturally avoid wayspots that are not on the marked trail, and these trails are also marked at fairly short intervals so that you can always find your way. This small forest path, which the trail follows here, could easily be missed without being marked, so this marking is important for orientation along the trail. Thank you for your time and for carefully checking my information.
I think I need to provide information here, as classifiying trail markers like this as “non permanent” is, for someone who knows hiking and its traditions well, not understandable.
I understand the reviewers urge to not accept nominations like this a hike trail, as painted signs like those might be seen as non-permanent, but they are not. they are actually MORE permanent than Plaques.
Those are very common in germany over wide streches of hike trails, wich would make it impossible to submit those. I personally like to submit hike trails, because they encourage exploring and excercising in nature. I would be really sad, if markings like that would be deemed unacceptable.
As far as I understand, the Wayfarer Team is always eager to understand cultural differences and wants to avoid looking at thing like this through their own cukltural lens, but to understand worldwide traditions and cultural views.
So I want to help with that. I want to make those points regarding painted Markers on Hike trails:
1: Sustainability and environmental protection: Attaching plaques to trees can be damaging, especially if nails or screws are used. Paint markings are less invasive and cause less damage to tree bark. Nails and screws in Tree bark are an entry point for fungus and bakteria, wich can harm or even kill an otherwise healthy tree.
2: Cost-effectiveness: Paint markings are often more cost-effective to apply and maintain. They require less material and are easier to apply, whereas plaques incur additional costs for materials and installation.
3: Visibility and recognizability: Colored markings are clearly visible from a distance and can be easily identified, especially in wooded areas where trees are close together. The use of colors allows different routes or difficulty levels to be identified using different color codes.
4: Weather resistance: Paint markings applied with special weather-resistant paints are often more durable and resistant to weathering than plaques, which can rust, peel or, with tree growth, get torn apart. The color expands even with tree growth, so those markings are visible for decades before needing to be replaced, while plaques last way shorter due to plastic getting brittle and pale in sunlight. Anyways, even if a marker becomes damaged, it gets replaced in short time, as in germany we have “vereine” (Associations? Volunteer organisations?) for hikers who check for safety and replace damaged makers whenever needed. I want you to look at this marking i tok a picture from to emphasize on how permanent those are. You can see the color grew with the tree for a long time and is still recognizeable. what you can also see is that the marking got replaced after the marking got to light.
5: Tradition and norms: In Germany, the practice of color-coding trails has a long history, and many hikers are accustomed to using this type of marking. There are standardized color codes used by various hiking clubs and organizations. Each Hike trail has a unqiue color code and the “Wandervereine” (Hiking associations) hand out templates to selected,t rained members to mark trails with weatherproof colors. The tradition of marking Hike trails goes back to the míddle Ages, where pilgrims marked pathes to Holy sites with oil colors mso other could find the way more easily. During those times, thoise colors were provided by the church and it was expected for pilgrims to mark their path.
6: Trailmarker plaques are, sadly, a common “souvenir” for hikers and can be easily ripped of, wich is another reason why trailmarkers are often done with weatherproof colors more often in germany nowadays, as those can not be easily ripped of, wich leads to confusion for hikers when important markers are missing
I do see, that reviewers may find those easy to fabricate, BUT I have to disagree with that. First, the coloring in a permanent color isnt that easy to fabricate, especially because you need fitting templates to do it convincingly, but more important: Hike trails should ALWAYS be submitted with a Link to a Trail Map to the Path submitted. So there is no need to fabricate Trail Markers, as long as a trail map has been submitted it can be verified that the submitted location is on the Hike trail, wich is the actual Trail (wich is always permanent and safe to access) and Hike trails are well marked in germany, so one will always find a trail marker on the trail route to submit if they want to. Fabricating Trail markers outside of the trail would also be considered unlawful in germany and those would be removed for vandalism and should be rightfully rejected, as should any trail (marker) submitted without a Map to prove the trail is actually going where the pin has been placed. I think that could be common knowledge to the Team, while I, sadly, from my experience have little hope that the community will follow, this is how I understand the rules and I think the appeals team should be better educated on how trail markers work as wayspots. I think its really discouraging getting a great Hike Trail like the Westerwalssteig rejected because the trail marker isnt as pleasing as one would like it to be (I personally think those markers look way better than plastic plaques, wich have many downsides too).
I want to again emphasize on we are not submitting Trailmarkers here, but Hike trails, to encourage exploring those trails while playing Niantic Games, wich should be something that is as true to the wayfarer goals as it could be. I really love to submit those, as I love to play in the Forest while hiking or going for a walk, and those Trails make this way more enjoyable while beeing very true to the wayfarer goals.
I come from a major hiking hotspot in germany (if you want to have a look, see this Map: Waymarked Trails - Hiking) and most of the trails in the forests are marked with those signs, and its not the small regional/townwide ones that are mostly marked with weatherproof color, but mostly the nationwide premium trails.
I also want to thank @OoLeguanoO and @Beneathar who brought me to Wayfarer and who help me a lot in submitting trails and other wayspots. We have a really nice community here, and those two made my Town into a really enjoyable place to play Niantic Games wich i never thought to be possible. They also helped to to write this.
I also want to point out, that the main reason I am posting here is not the wayspot to be approved, i’m sure i could get through an improved nomination of this later, but to educate the Appeals Team on hiking in germany and how Trailmarkers like this are not less, but more, permanent than the ones who get way more easily accepted. Submitting Hike Trails can sometimes be frustrating, and we in my community accept that, but I really don’t want to waste my appeals when the Team is lacking local knowledge. I know the wayfarer team is always eager to learn about local customs and viewpoints to broaden their view on their worldwide community, so my goal is to help with that.
I would have loved to provide more useful Links to this traditon of marking trails and its benefits, but whatever search string I use in google, it always leads me to sites of one of the thousands of german Hike Trails and I really can not find a good Link to this, its like searching for a needle in a Haystack…
Anyways, @OoLeguanoO has pointed me to an official Video informing about trailmarking germany, where you can see and get explained how trailmarking is done in germany:
(You can find a short pice about marking with weatherproof colors at Minute 1:00, you can get english subs in the settings of the video)
Thank you all for reading though this.
