Has the rules on access to general public changed?

Just incase i missed it. I appealed this, a boatin club dock, tbh wasnt fully sure it would pass, ive had skme pass, some fail, but the rejectio for the appeal says innaccessible tk general public. I thought so ling as someone could access it and its not private residence or farm, it was acceptable?

(Side note, that says the original rejection was generic business, when j appealed jt said unsafe access, which it isnt, im submitting the entrance which is on land)

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I think the ā€˜privateā€™ sign and security camera warning signs put (appeal)reviewers off a bit. But I think a private boating club shouldnā€™t be a rejection reason. Like sports clubs and many other socializing places, you usually have to be a member to enter.

You mentioned you nominated the dock. I would advise you not to nominate the ā€˜boating club dockā€™ but instead nominate the Club itself. I havenā€™t seen your full nomination, but if you nominate the club with enough background information about it, it might stand a chance. I think it would fall at least in the ā€˜socializeā€™ or ā€˜exerciseā€™ categories (at least, if you sail the thing yourself) :slight_smile:

And, try to find a friendlier photograph. Maybe thereā€™s a logo or other sign nearby that signifies the entrance of the place?

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ā€œNot being accessible to the general publicā€ is NOT a valid reason for rejection. As far as Iā€™m aware ā€œbeing accessible to the general publicā€ has never been a REAL reason for rejection.

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We see appeals posted here often for rejected removal reports because the location is not accessible to the general public. Those removal reports are rejected if they have safe access for the people allowed to be there.

The appeals team generally replies with what appear to be prewritten scripts. This is very concerning if they have a script denying for being ā€œinaccessible to the general public.ā€ Unless this reviewer went off-script, that one needs to be removed.

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Inaccessible to generic public is not a thing. It specifically says that wayspot in gated comunitys are eligible. This would fall under gated comunity, wouldnt it? Also wayspots inside spa centers and resorts are also a thing, and you have to pay for entrance. Maybe try a different picture and description.

Are you trying to convince me? I completely agree with you, and if it reads like I donā€™t, then I need to edit my post.

Im trying to agree with both of you. :sweat_smile: I have also felt the biased way of wayspot acceptance.

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Said boating club rather than boating club dock in the submission, but as far as incould tell, theres no like, main building or sign or anything like that, its just the docks (as theres another club uo the river a wee bit thats the same)

HI @gazzas89 - you did not get blown about by the storm the other week :slight_smile:

My view here is mine. Others may agree and some will disagree. I hope the view gives you an angle you can work with.

Nothing has changed. If we look at this nomination just by itself. This is not a place to have people coming in. And probably for reasons other than access

So I know a similar place (pier) (in London) that you cannot access as a guest unless you have a lifejacket on. The gate is locked to everyone. If I was reviewing this - safety would be my first port of call. (pun intended). It is not a gated community. Let alone boat people often worry about security issues. So this type of place probably would not want people gathering on it for multiple reasons. AND it probably has insurance to consider for safety and security.

I know I probably would not accept this (without seeing the nomination in full). I know a bit about piers, water, marinas etc and I would be very wary of this. I get it - boat, sailing etc can be seen as sport. But the place itself is not where I would want to say is safe for people to gather. Even if the waypoint is footpath side.

I saw a large group playing last night. Blocked footpaths. Walked across roads, skipped red lights. Totally focused on playing the game. You get my point about nominations that have small narrow locked gate for entrance, narrow piers (that may have people working on or coming too and from the gate possible carrying boating equipment, fuel etc), lines/ropes around, cold water, possibly tidalā€¦

The end of the day. We as nominators have to convince the reviewers that the nominations meets all criteriaā€¦ this includes acceptance criteria, eligibility, rejection and content guidelines. And that is is nominated under and meets ALL of Niantics terms and conditions.

That rules/regulations/laws for one country, state, local governments etc are not applicable to others when it comes to public access. So we have to be very careful throwing around that Niantic allows x y z. The terms of use override the criteria and it specifically addresses laws, rules etc of the place you are nominating from. Niantic will also use words like may or can be eligible subject to meeting all of the aboveā€¦ @Bellf0rest absolutely, Niantic say what can/may/could/might be eligible for nomination but Niantic also say ā€“ that does not make it eligible for acceptance as the nomination has to meet a host of other things. I guess I am saying at the end of the day eligibility for nomination is not the same as eligibility for acceptance. Hence why we as Nominators have to nail it particularly for what some people may see as borderline nominations.

@gazzas89 Me - in the grand scheme of things - would probably either A get the h_mp and keep trying to get it in - or B - get the h_mp then go nominate something else. I am leaning to B. :wink:

Good luck and stay dry!

Postnote: the word h_mp is eligible to useā€¦ Who would have thought it? Iā€™ve got the h_mp is totally a thing :slight_smile:

Tbh ill probably not bother resubmitting. As i said, ive had skme acceoted, some rejected. Seemed an interesting place. It was more the ā€œnot accessible to the generla publicā€ being used as the appeal rejection reason i was unhappy with, because the only time that should be used is for school or water ā€¦ and while yes, some of this is on the water, the side i eas dok g was kn the public footpath lol its a place i maybe go tk like ā€¦ 3, 4 times a year, so not skmethj g i overly worry about

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Thats bad, because I had an appeal for almost exactly the same submission accepted! Albeit a while ago.

Hopefully your decision can be corrected soon

I would, to be stubborn! But only when convenient. I very much dislike when something so obviously great for exploring and socialising is rejected.

Honestly, I am very surprised this hasnā€™t been overturned yet.

Edited to add the tool tip from the review flow:

And this

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Yes!
The general public can gain access to any sports club by becoming a memberā€¦ or attending with a member probably. Definitely not a valid reason to reject something!

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No, the rules havenā€™t changed. This is an example of appeal reviewers not knowing the rules.

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I would guess its not been overturned because no ones mentioned to nia staff on here? Or maybe they looked and decided not tk overturn lol. Usually i only get mine overturned when its an egregious mistake lol

I think this is rejected for other reasonsā€¦

Ignore those and focus on the nomination. Where it is and how accessed. It has no clubhouse. Is a restricted pier on cold water. Narrow piers, lines/ropes around. Cleats to trip over.

As I noted - I know a similar pier. Where as a guest I have to wear a lifejacket because of dangers. And to have these little placesā€¦ There is the insurance. Etc let alone boat owners peed off at people stealing stuff.

As a community person I probably would not accept this. We have no idea what locals may feel if they reviewed.

And no not all piers are equalā€¦ Some make great POIs.

This is what the piers can look like

Or this one . Older photo but I have highlighted what issues may lie on all the piersā€¦

Do not get me wrong. @gazzas89 is in a beautiful neck of the world on the River Leven. And there are numerous other POIs of interest from the rowing club, brewery, walks etc as I suspect it is between Loch Lomond Rowing Club down to Balloch Pier on Loch Lomond itself. With the odd place for a wee dram or two :slight_smile:

We need to consider this a whole and no one reason will be singular for the nomination rejection.

Im gonna save you a lot of time for future submissions, waypoints dont need to be safe and accessible from full 360 degrees. I have several waypoints acceoted that are on pavements or walking paths along canals. So long as its safe to touch from 1 direction (though i usually aim for about 120 degrees at the bare minimum). So this submission had 180 degrees saftey, as it was on a walking path with loads of space to stand to the side.

As for not having a clubhouse ,i have admitted ive gotten about 50/50 through that didnt have clubhouses and were just piers (or deploying bits, as one was just the fence round the patch of mud to release the boats from with a bit to safely place the boats on the land)

Im not complaining it got rejected, im complaining in general about the reasoning given by niantic, as it may lead to appealed waypoints being rejected if this is the criteria/boilerplate they use

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Mine was literally on a small island in the middle of the river, right on the bank

Access via ferry service!

But the ferry is safe (and free), and theres land to stand on, and members are welcome

Presumably these clubs also give training/safety briefings to new members so that they dont trip over things and end up going for a swim.

I think we have to accept as wayfarers that people are supposed to have a bit of care and attention and not just blindly walk around (even though some do).

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Am just going to say.

You asked for a view. I am giving you my view. I am not saying my view is right. I am only saying I can understand why some people may consider several differing reasons for rejection.

This nomination has those rejection reasons that people may feel (rightly or wrongly) it fails.

As someone who is risk averse, and who works around these, I am not comfortable that they could be used as gathering spaces. The fact the POI is on land on the other side of the gate is great.

But in my mind. A place that has big gates that say no. Big signs that say danger. That have life rings every where. Is a signal for reviewers to question a nomination. We may not like that as nominators but it could be a major factor for the people who reviewed your nomination. It may differ with another reviewer.

I wish you good luck. And was I right on where it is???