First of all, I apologize for my English because I use Google Translate, but I want to use it anyway. First, I would like the community’s opinion, and then if a manager would be so kind as to answer me in more detail, I would be very happy. So, the first question concerns the mural pictured below. I think many people know the Chinese saying, but it is mainly spread through Japanese (hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil) (I don’t know if Google translated it well, hahaha). The mural below represents the monkey that does not speak, but the monkey that does not see is already in the database. Although they may be connected, the two murals are completely different (the cells were favorable), and so I requested both, but even with the appeal, it says that they are duplicates of each other. So, I am writing here to get your opinion, and I repeat, I hope that of an administrator who can convince me a little more than what was stated in the appeal, that is, being connected to the other, it is a duplicate, but (in my opinion, it is connected thanks to the saying, but graphically, as a drawing, they are two different things) no??? Thanks a lot.
This doesn’t matter for Wayfarer. You say the two murals are connected. Are they on the same door or same area? As then a duplicate decision seems correct.
Can you please provide the full nomination for the one marked duplicate -all the text, both photos and location so that we can see exactly what reviewers saw.
If you have appealed can we see that too.
A rejection for duplicate can be valid even for different objects if they are very similar and close together. How close is a variable measure as it depends what the objects are.
If these murals are on adjacent shutters, for example, then I can understand the rejection for duplication. A photo of the general area (or the location if this is visible on streetview) would help show how they relate to each other.
Yes, of course, I’ll show you more information now. If you want, I’ll also include descriptions and supporting information. But first, I wanted to explain why (in my opinion) it’s not a duplicate (I repeat, I’m writing here to get other people’s opinions. I don’t want to start a war, just to understand). The only thing is, it was voted on either by Emily or someone from Niantic. So, photo 1 shows you where the murals are located. Obviously, the shutters are up at that moment, so right now, you don’t know if they’re there (the shutters are for the paninoteca/Barkollo Cafe/Tabacchi). The monkey already in the database is on the sandwich shop shutter, the one I made is on the tobacco shop shutter (photo 2). In fact, that’s the supporting photo where you can clearly see the word "Tabacchi. In photo one, I also added a red stripe to indicate the cell division (I know they shouldn’t be considered, but it’s worth mentioning). In photo three, I’ve placed a photo from above so you can actually see where the monkey is already in the database, the cell division, and where I placed my application (the non-speaking monkey). My thought was, even if they’re part of the same Japanese saying, they’re still different murals, graphically different, I assumed they weren’t duplicates. Thank you very much.
It’s possible it was pulled for internal review. It’s also possible the ML system got confused and thought it was visually the same object. You could try an appeal, provided you have decent text and supporting photo, as sometimes ML rejects things that should have gone through to community review.
I’m on the fence regarding this being duplicate - I can see arguments either way.
I already appealed and they left me the duplicate, that’s why I’m writing here, chatgpt agrees with me, they are two separate works and should not be considered duplicates hahahah I’m posting photos of what they wrote to me, I repeat (again) that’s why I’m writing here
ChatGPT (or any other “AI” system) is of little use for wayspots, as it has no understanding of the criteria. Anyone can agree that these photos are of different murals, can the context can still mean they are considered to be duplicate.
If the existing wayspot is considered to represent the object that is the entire set of hear/see/speak no evil murals, then you cannot have a second wayspot representing the same object.
It is more obvious with playgrounds. If someone tries to submit every piece of equipment as a separate wayspot, what they are actually submitting is proxy objects to represent the playground. Only one of these is eligible and the rest are duplicates even though they are different items.
Yes, yes. The chatgpt thing was more of a joke. I just hope a Niantic admin looks at the topic and tells me whether we agree with the decision or withdraw it and put it in the database. At least for now, I can fight for my beliefs, but if “a boss” intervenes, it’ll end there.
There is clearly an element of a judgement call.
From streetview this appears to be one commercial property with one entrance ( I think it’s one entrance) . It doesn’t show the murals however I presume it is the set of 3 one on each shutter. I can fully understand a judgement that the set of 3 is one mural - one overall story, at one property. Rather than 3 distinct murals each conveying an independent story.
Edit: looking at older streetview there are different doors but the internal flooring is identical.
This is one where the answer can go either way, so i would err of the side of being favorable to submitter. Does it cause any harm to have both shutters as wayspots? No.
It has already been reviewed and appealed, both times rejected due to being duplicate. With an either-way submission (although I feel this is more 80-20 than 50-50), hoping for a second review of the same submission is a very long shot.
As to “it doesn’t cause harm to have more wayspots”, which is what your rhetorical question comes down to, this is a dangerous approach for borderline submissions, as it could be used (for example) on every neighbourhood sign in the US and every ID marker in Aus.
Yes, as I said, I was just asking for opinions. However, I would really like a Niantic employee with your opinions and perhaps with the new information I provided to tell me: “No, we stand by our decision,” or “yes, we have reexamined the evidence/opinions and changed our decision.” That’s all. Anyway, thanks again. If anyone knows how to tag the admins, I’d be grateful so we can put an end to the opinions. Thanks again.
You don’t need to tag Niantic. They will comment or DM you if they feel it is necessary. If they don’t feel it is necessary, they tend not to comment, so you may not get what you are looking for.
I would personally review these 2 (3 even?) As separately eligible, and would even submit them as such. There used to be a now lost clarification that different sections of a mural could be eligible if they helped tell a story…. Although it doesn’t exist anymore, the philosophy behind it still makes sense to me and IMO still applies.
I didn’t know about this story, so if you think I could elaborate on the request more, including the story of the Japanese saying, and if Emily doesn’t rate it, it would pass (because I think Emily did). Anyway, I’m eagerly awaiting the administrators’ comments or opinions. Thanks again everyone.
