it has been my experience that almost all such requests require an appeal post on the forum even when the wayspot photo prominently features a hate symbol.
100% I’ve had trouble removing memorials to hate as an ambassador.
I didn’t know that being an ambassador provides any relaxation in the removal reports.
Ive not come across any… is that a US thing?
Not to sound difficult but does that mean that the church isnt a good place for those people who watch the preaching to socialise?
How much are we supposed to police what people believe while doing wayfarer? The church is likely still a significant part of their community. And presumably a bad preacher may be replaced, and the hate would stop.
This is why I asked for a list of denominations that we should reject as maybe Niantic has a list of religions they prefer and ones they dont prefer? I would hope not, but seems plausible based on the direction of this discussion?
yeah we have a great track record of removing problematic hateful people.
I don’t really know what this whole discussion is supposed to be about, because no one is naming any groups, religions or people for clarity
I’m not religious and haven’t studied religion in over 20 years. Some of my friends and acquaintances are religious. It doesn’t really matter either way to me as long as someone is nice, interesting, good at their job, whatever is relevant
I see churches and other religious buildings as culturally and socially important- they are a place for people to come together and get support from their community. Me not believing in their story doesnt come into it. Lots of people in this world are intolerant but we don’t judge other waypoints by the beliefs of people who go there. And is that what Aaron was asking for? I’m not sure. None of this is clear. I am very lost.
Well, nice to get some clarification on my issue. Now though, I feel I’ve done this…
I don’t really thinks it’s appropriate to discuss individual religions. If you don’t know of any like AgentX has described, then be happy and don’t spend mental energy on this concept.
But it seems that people are discussing religions or was that not what Aaron meant about not all churches being eligible?
I just want to know how to evaluate what makes a church eligible! Im not worrying about it for my daily life, I’m worried specifically for wayfarer.
I did not interpret Aaron’s comments that we need to verify a religion’s beliefs. AgentX was the first one to mention that. Aaron linked it to church and schools.
Sometimes it’s easy to create special interest and/or hate based groups that use the “church” identity for tax evasion and mixed signal messaging. There are some Churches (capital C, here, actual places of “worship”) that have been listed as “hate organizations” by trusted and respected entities.
In the past, during certain charged climates, Niantic stepped up and said hate groups or objects that exist to promote oppression or hate are not tolerated in Wayfarer and meet removal criteria. In practice, they have not had a strong track of upholding that.
Art can be used to send messages and the use of art for suppression is not limited to the US. Churches can shift to extremism and extreme hatred to social norms, as well, and sometimes it retains location and congregation.
Fortunately, these are very few and far between, at least in my experience, however I do not want to dismiss the impact that experience could have on others and having to face that once is too much.
Oh maybe I misunderstood Aaron, I thought it was school was 1 reason but that there were other reasons that were not mentioned
Please be aware that some Churches have been slapped with certain labels by certain governments while being protected by other governments or even groups of governments like the European Union or the UN. I am intentionally being vague here because I do not want this to become a debate on specific religions. I just want people to be aware that “being labeled” is not a black and white issue.
“Church” already points at 1religion I suppose
I am using the generic version of church. I intend for it to mean religious group of any faith.
Religious building or place of worship would be a more generic term that doesn’t link to any particular religion. I had thought you meant Christian specifically.
Back to the original topic,
Here where I live we have art wrapped around many Traffic Boxes. Typically these last 7 to 10 years and then they have to be replaced. Or if construction happens and they replace the box the art will often get replaced as well.
The actual structure is still there but new art. Before the easiest way to change these was to take a new picture, get that new picture approved, thumbs it up until it becomes the main photo, then submit title and description changes and hope that voters recognize which one is new and which one is old and votes in the new information. If they don’t then appeal It and hope Niantic can tell which one is correct with a bit of supporting info.
Recently with eMiLy approving a lot of these my new process has been streamlined a bit. I’ll submit the new art as a new PoI, eMiLy approves them so now they are in Lightship. I then ask in Pokémon Go to remove the old PoI and state in the removal reason that the art has been removed and replaced with new art. For the most part this has worked. Only hiccup I have had is that one went to Niantic Voting and whomever marked it as a duplicate. I then appealed that decision and it was overturned so it now is in Lightship, I asked for the old one to be removed but it was denied, I just haven’t gotten back to it to appeal that denied removal request yet.
For the most part this new way has worked fairly well. Issues sometimes come up when A PoI is only in Ingress as we so far don’t have a way to add supporting text. I would like to be able to submit supporting photos for removal requests as well.
Well, I did get to the church in question for me, and did find that only 1 photo there is of the sign, 1 good one of the entrance, and 1 bad, blurry one of the entrance. I did get a new photo added, and submitted the title and description edits. I even upvoted the previous good entrance photo, and that’s the main 1 in Lightship now.
Oh, and I did also submit a new location type for Church, and I’ll request the removal of the 2 bad photos (the sign and the blurry photo).
Edit: Title accepted by ML!
I feel that one thing that is happening in this thread is that the word “church” is being overloaded.
In some instances, it is being used to represent the building itself. In others, it is being used to represent the organization occupying the building.
A lot of churches (organizations) occupy generic store fronts, particularly in larger cities where property is at a premium.
If such a building goes from serving as a church to serving as a store then back to serving as a church (and no one playing noticed), does it count as a still being a church with a rename?
If a church (org) shuts down operations, but rents its property out to another church (org), is that a rename or a new church that needs vetting?
If a church simply rebrands itself so it is the same organization, how do non-members know?
If a pub renames itself from Archie's Place
to Archie and Murray's Place
, is that a new pub or a rename? Why would it require any more scrutiny than a church that goes though a similar name?
If a large church, consisting of hundreds of individual locations, undergoes a split, and some locations go from Old Reformation Church
to New Reformation Church
count as a rename or a new church that needs vetting?
Personally, I feel like the Niantic policy described here is too full of holes to be effectively implemented/enforced, and inconsistent with how other entities are treated. And that seems unfair.
lol