They are tiny metal stones engraved with the last residence and individual name of WWII holo caust victims. The stones mark the location where victims were dragged from their home and deported or even murdered in the street. I do not feel okay with accepting them as a wayspot just so we can subsequently celebrate them as in game locations for our enjoyment. I am fed up that noone else seems to think this as they are accepted as wayspots en masse.
Aside from this they are also so tiny and hard to locate so it’s easy for people to abuse them. And ever since I started reviewing I found several fake ones, which I reported to more experienced wayfarers in my local community.
I would like to see how the wayfarer team and the community feel about having struikelstenen/stopersteine as wayspots.
I agree that submitting these as game locations is in poor taste. I would reject as a sensitive location. I wonder if these would be removed if reported.
I can very well understand the argument of the sensitive location regarding the ‘Stolpersteine’, but as a German citizen I would also like to contribute a different perspective.
‘Stolpersteine’ are a very important part of the culture of remembrance in Germany, as they show that the victims of the Hοlοcaυst lived among us as normal people during their lifetime and were part of the population. As you come across these ‘Stolpersteine’ in many places in every city, you are forced to look at them again and again - even if you are playing a game with augmented reality. These people and places must never be forgotten!
A wise man once put it like this: ‘Only those who know the past can understand the present and shape the future.’ If the wayspots in one game or another help us to recognise and understand the past, then I think that should be welcome.
Unfortunately, I have to agree with you about the misuse of the ‘Stolpersteine’. However, thanks to the extensive directories in which almost every ‘Stolpersteine’ is listed, this misuse can be detected and prevented just as easily
My post is about the suitability of using individual holo caust victim memorials in the wayfarer database. Worth a (deep) discussion! I think your response not constructive to the topic at hand.
Musea and general memorials are a bit different and more suitable if you ask me because they are educational and usually have lots of interactive objects or displays that are suitable as wayspot, even if the subject might be a bit grim. My problem with the struikelstenen/stolpersteine is that they are for individuals and are placed to specifically remember the gruesome act of them being dragged from their last known homes.
This is a sensitive subject and no matter what side of the coin you opt for you should fully respect the opposite view. You can have very strong opposite and valid views.
When I visited Germany I was interested to see these as I was unaware until they had cropped up in Wayfarer.
The pokestops guided me to where some were.
As I did with several other places I found, I stopped playing and paid attention to the object.
I treated them with the same respect that I do when I come across any location that is a memorial of some description. I read the details of each - the description often doesn’t get that attention.
As objects I thought they were a very simple but striking way of conveying events from history. The ordinariness of their location was poignant. The fact that ordinary life was continuing around added to that sense. That extraordinary dreadful things happen in such ordinary settings. That some people would be going about their daily lives whilst others were being taken to suffer an appalling fate. That on some streets there were lots of these. Would be it be so bad that our ordinary game playing world gets interrupted and reminded? That is what memorials should do.
As a project I was told that some places thought that these were not appropriate and did not want them installed.
My feeling is they are very appropriate in real life and have their place in the virtual world.
It’s a database of significant real-world features. These are significant real-world features. Simple as that. I don’t see why these would be any less eligible than any other type of memorial.
Individual gravestones are also significant real-world features. In most cases these are not allowed as a wayspot. Little libraries on SFPRP are also significant real-world features to some, also not allowed. There is a lot of nuance to wayfaring and there are a lot of objects that aren’t as clear cut as we would like them to be. This is why I am trying to invite a discussion about struikelstenen/stolpersteine.
Thank you for sharing your point of view. I can get in to looking at them this way, but my but my feelings on them still lean towards the side of them being inappropriate as ingame objects. I’m curious how the wayfarer team views these. I hope they will share their point of view so we have a bit of guidance on how to treat them.
Those are not allowed because they have hard disqualifying factors. Gravestones aren’t allowed unless it’s for a notable person. Private residential property disqualifies those LFL’s (even though those things are literal invitations to set foot on the property and use them, but that’s beside the point). Your feelings are not a hard disqualifying factor.
If you don’t like those wayspots, then just don’t use them. No need to go and try to ruin things for the thousands of players that spin stolpersteine Pokestops every day in cities all throughout the Netherlands, Germany and probably more countries.
The criteria clarifications offer plenty of insight on how Niantic views these.
Controversial Memorial Sites
Places that eulogize slavery, racism, or other acts of oppression and portray them in a positive light are not eligible and should be rejected as sensitive locations.
These stones don’t portray the events of 40-45 in a positive light, so they’re not sensitive locations.
Sensitive memorial sites that do provide educational value may not all be considered eligible, however. For example, places like Auschwitz-Birkenau may provide a lot of educational value through their museum and programming, but are also active sites of mourning. As a result, they should be rejected as sensitive locations out of respect.
These stones are very much not an active site of mourning. So again, they are not sensitive locations.
Again, I’m trying to invite discussion and I’m curious to get more opinions from other wayfarers. The linked criteria also give reason to reject them, because a lot of individuals are not famous. Some people, especially elderly that experienced the war, might still use these stones as active site of mourning as well. I won’t agrue any further with you because this is not the point of my post. You clearly only care for more pokéthings at any cost.
Wayfarer should be about wayfaring, not just about Pokémon go. It should be about exploring and digitizing the world around us in a respectfull and accurate manner where we can be openminded and reach a concensus if people in the wayfarer community raise concerns with some types of wayspots.
I hope others or the wayfarer staff can add some constructive insights in struikelstenen/stolpersteine as a wayspot.
The linked criteria also give reason to reject them, because a lot of individuals are not famous.
That strictly applies to graves only, to prevent every graveyard in the world from having the Pokestop density of central Tokyo. These stolpersteine aren’t graves and there aren’t hundreds of them clumped together.
Some people, especially elderly that experienced the war, might still use these stones as active site of mourning as well.
No they don’t. There are dozens of stolpersteine Pokestops in my city and not even once have I ever seen any signs of any of them being used as a mourning site. Nobody leaves flowers there, nobody is openly weeping there on the sidewalk. And even if a superminority of people does that, is that a reason to get all of the stolpersteine removed?
As an aside, I think this is a good discussion involving a sensitive topic. Please try to treat each other with respect, there are some good points to consider all around.
