I have title edits got rejected by Emily within minutes. What got me frustrated more is that Niantic told me to use appeals in Contributions Management page to appeal rejected edits, while we know that we can get 2 appeals quota in every 20 days.
Now imagine if you had done 20 edits in a day and say that all of them got instantly rejected by Emily. Would you prefer to wait for almost 7 months to appeal them all? Resubmission is out of option if Emily would reject them again. Not to mention that I would prefer to use appeals for rejected nominations given that my nominations are still getting incorrectly rejected.
I had a description edit immediately rejected I think because it contained the word âschoolâ. It was a park sign which contained some information about tree planting that had been done in 1993 with some local school children helping.
I had been wanting to make the description say exactly what the sign said, but that was rejected. I instead paraphrased and removed the word âschoolâ thereby making my new description less accurate, but that was accepted just fine.
So possibly thinking whether some of these rejections are for reasons like that and if thereâs a good way around it?
Chiming in to say Emily doesnât like art titles with one word or most restaurant names. âLunaâ âLadyâ etc. but âLuna Sculptureâ works. I ended up having to add restaurant to the end of each restaurant as well.
I had this happen once, where I suggested a title and description edit, waited for the community to vote on them, and they were rejected. This was before we could appeal in Contribution Management, and I didnât really want to go through the forum appeal process at the time, so I decided to resubmit them. Both were rejected within a minute of submission, and I figured it was because ML knew the community had rejected my previous submissions.
I know though that this isnât the case for everyone, but itâs interesting to me what ML will accept and will reject. Iâve had some description edits with misspellings in it that have gotten accepted within hours, but then if I try to fix a title to note itâs a playground at a certain park, ML rejects it, even though the old title was never the name of the park or the playground to begin with.
Yes, ML can be crazy to figure out at times when it comes to edits, I totally agree with that.
This would be great - Iâve had a couple of instant rejects that Niantic have accepted once appealed. I hated wasting my appeals on them, but how else will they teach Emily?
My rejects were:
ER Dance Academy - Iâm in the UK so never even considered that the ER might be a problem, but I presume it was rejected because in the US (and maybe other places) ER stands for emergency room.
Air Ambulance Donation Station - a charity shop with a huge area to donate bigger items. I presumed rejected because of ambulance, and possibly station in the same sentence.
Iâve just had one rejected that is a memorial bench with a view of the old r1fle range. I nominated did the view of a historical site, but guessing the word r*fle upset Em! I will appeal that one and see what happens.
lol - couldnât even post it here because of that word!
@NianticAtlas how about you speak up here rather than gave me another warning? If you feel that Iâm just fussing around in this forum then feel free to ban me out of this forum.
Now whatâs the solution to at least stop Emily to instantly reject edits?
It would be a step in the right direction if Emilyâs immediate repudiation did not go any further.
Before, this would have resulted in strange alerts being sent to the team staff.
I have been experimenting with different cases lately and have seen some interesting examples of edits and deletions.
Emily edits the correct name and description of a famous sculptorâs bronze sculpture in a park or historic site listed in a municipal history, and the majority of the edits are rejected within a day.
It is even abstract and ambiguous titles and blank descriptions such as stone monuments, sculptures, jizo, etc. that Emily rejects rather than turning them over to community review.
Therefore, it will probably be similar for new WAYSPOT nominations with a higher number of cases.
We tried to appeal, but the Wayfarer team responded that they were not sure if that was the correct title or description.
Therefore, we believe that the Wayfarer team does not have Emily study materials that are permanently stored in libraries, such as bibliographies and catalogs, and that they do not search for such materials on the web.
The same seems to be true for the Wayfarer team.
If the Wayfarer team wants Emily to learn this and improve, they should revamp the system so that new nominations, edits, and deletion reports can include multiple photos, URLs, PDFs, etc. to serve as evidence.
Also, the response to the deletion report is interesting to note.
It is definitely Emily, as it was responded to within a few days of the report, but most of the recently cleared religious sites and removed playground equipment are denied.
Well, this would be a normal reaction, since many of them still exist in street view.
But if this is a closed restaurant, even if it was closed just a few days ago, there is a high probability that it will be approved.
If the first report is not approved, but a second one is submitted immediately, the deletion report is often approved within a few days.
That is even if the restaurant is present in Street View.
Therefore, we assume that Emily is searching for some kind of information (social networking?) other than Street View.
I donât know if this is good or bad, but at least this is an improvement.
removal reports are not reviewed by Emily. That has been established. Emily rejections do not trigger a suspension and never have. Niantic has made it clear time and again. Time to do away with these conspiracy theories.
It is not a conspiracy theory, but a pleasant fact that Emily is using good sources of information.
The Wayfarer database used to be the worst in the world in terms of updating because it relied on street views for information on removals, etc., and no one would report updates for the convenience of the game.
Also, the Wayfarer team relies on Street View for updated information, making Wayfarer the worst updated global database in the world.
However, as we have seen recently, the Wayfarer database is starting to become highly updatable as long as it is reported, which is a good thing.
Until now we could report edits and deletions only to be denied by the team, because without a fresh appeal,and the database would not be updated forever.
Well, incidentally, it doesnât matter to me whether the source of the information is Elon, Pichai, or Zuckerberg.
What is important to me in the Wayfarer database is high quality and good updatability.
One solution to auto-rejections could be to allow a supplemental photo and/or new supporting information to the form itself. If youâre trying to add a new description or fix the Wayspot name, the ability to support the change with details could be incredibly useful. For example, if you were adding the artistâs name to a mural, the ability to add a photo of the artistâs signature to the edit request as support could be helpful, not just to the ML but also if it does go into community review. You may not want or need the artistâs signature as a Wayspot photo, so adding one to the photo-pool of a Wayspot might not be helpful, but having it as supporting evidence could be a benefit. Same with Wayspots with indistinct/âgenericâ titles (âplaygroundâ or âchurchâ come to mind⌠Which playground? Which church?) A supporting photo showing the proper name of the Wayspot, whether itâs a sign naming the church or a map showing the name of the park hosting the playground could help a lot.
Or just pull a larger swathe of ML approved/rejected edits into a manual Niantic review to check its work. This is already being done, but maybe itâs time to focus on the edits, specifically edits the ML has rejected. This would be time consuming but I think the ML may need a bit more fine tuning when it comes to legitimate edits being rejected with some immediacy. The ML is generally doing a great job but there have been times when the decisions are baffling. It seems, in my opinion, that the ML still needs some human guidance sometimes.
It would be nice if that could be improved a bit.
I have been asking the Wayfarer team to improve the edit/delete process for some time now, but it seems to be a lower priority than approving low quality wayspots, and I am disappointed that it is not improving.
If only the correct title, description, and a photo or URL with location information could be submitted with the report, a good percentage of the current instant rejections of edit and delete reports would be resolved correctly.
Of course, even Emily, who has less than grade school intelligence, would respond correctly if she could understand the evidence.
Also, there will be no more adult stores being approved as wayspots, and there will be no more stupidity on the part of Emily and the Wayfarer team in denying a deletion report.
locally another player has been trying to edit a title thatâs only two words to make it distinct from some similar wayspots with identical titles. four different people have now submitted edits for this wayspot and ML rejects them all immediately.
are we forced to use a precious appeal just for this? I have little faith that an appeal reviewer would even approve this change based on the evidence Iâve seen. but thereâs no other solution.
I donât want ML to be able to reject any text edits save for ones including unquestionably inappropriate slurs and the like. Simply turn off itâs ability to reject these, either accept or push to one of the human review queues.
âSchoolâ almost guarantees a reject, even when you are trying to explain that it used to be a school. Similarly Iâve found âfire stationâ gets an auto-reject even when it used to be a fire station. Sometimes the submission just doesnât make sense if you donât mention the history⌠honestly, I donât think that Emily is adding any value in those cases.
Yeah I was unable to update a description of a sign saying local school childrem planted trees in a park in the 90s, because the wording said âschoolâ
I would tell Emily to peruse the municipal histories of each city, and the catalogs of artistsâ works.
These are kept in their respective national libraries.
The Wayfarer team can learn them all if they want to get the machine learning right.
Currently, if you send in an edit of the correct title or description of a historical site or work of art, it is immediately rejected.
And even if you appeal, the Wayfarer team will reject it because they are equally uninformed and donât know if it is correct. (However, since this is also quick, we assume that Emily is doing this.)
In this case, the correct approach is to say, "We donât know if we are right, so please send us evidence to say we are right.
This is really a response on the abuse report form that we believe the Wayfarer team is reviewing.
Just do the same thing.
Emily likes as little changing as possible. But you donât have to do it all in one edit. Try âLittle Neighborhood Library in Sundown Ranchâ. If that goes thru, THEN try the preferred âSundown Ranch Little Free Libraryâ.
I found a historical marker in NC, âThe Death of Otto Woodâ, with no description, and I couldnât read the photo. So I looked up the guy on Wikipedia. He was arrested many times, for bootlegging and more. On his fourth jail escape, police caught up to him RIGHT HERE, and had a gum fight! A thousand people came to pay respects to his body. Emily didnât like any of that! So I said he was a âdesperadoâ, narrowed his list of crimes, said that police caught up to him here, and said to read the plaque to see what happened next.
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