Not Permanent?

Hey there this is the first thing I like to raise and discuss here.

If got serval spot that I suggested for example signs for hiking trails and the outcome is really inconsistent.

What disturbed me the most is the fact that there are some Wayfarers thing its funny to reject somenes as “not permanent” what an metallsign that sticks around for 20years and longer is not permanent? If that the case than we should remove all Spots cause even the Pyramids and the whole Planet is not permanent.

I raised an “Einspruch” objection to Niantic on two of those cases and both became Stopps, sadly I can’t just raise infinite objections cause they are limited.

Long story short I got no issues if an not that solid wayspot is reject
Ed or if an sign of an Hiking trail is rejected as copy but hey Wayfarer should tell people who reject stuff as not permanent what they mean with permanent? A snowman can’t be permanently. An potplant cant be permanent. But an at least 20 year old metallsign for Nature protection zone that at least n Germany will be renewed if it brakes should be permanent.

Aspecially most of the signs that I entered are on really remote locations like a Mile away from every house etc.

Sorry for the rant but im A little bit in rage about those issues.

Greetings from Germany.

From a reviewer perspective, the UI reads Permanent and Distinct.

So, it could be rejected for not being “distinct”, but the feedback the nominator gets is about permanence.

1 Like

Hi @Whiro83
Willkommen im Forum :hugs:
Du kannst hier übrigens auch auf deutsch schreiben, wenn dir das lieber ist. Es gibt hier nämlich eine Übersetzungfunktion.
Die Kriterien zu Wanderwegen und ihren Markierungen wirst du bestimmt kennen (ich hänge den link hier trotzdem nochmal an).
Es ist also wichtig herauszustellen, welche Route man zu erwarten hat, oder einen Entscheidungspunkt auf der Route. Und am allerbesten ist man vorbereitet, wenn zusätzlich noch ein link beigefügt ist, der bestätigt, dass die Route tatsächlich dort entlang führt.
Hast du das alles bedacht?
Ich tagge hier noch zusätzlich @HikeLadyLDK weil sie meiner Erinnerung nach quasi ein Profi auf dem Gebiet “Nominierung deutscher Wanderwege ist”.

1 Like

“Distinct” means its well recognizeable and not close to another wayspot marking the same thing (like having multiple spots around the same Swimming pool for a slide, a jumping tower, the pool itself… that would be not distinct, as I learned, as all of those would refer to the same pool). Trail Markers might seem not be very recognizeable, but when you are a hiker, you can spot your current trail’s marker from far away always (as they have strong coloring and a striking symbol), so they are distinct. That, anyways, doesn’t guarantee that a reviewer who doesn’t enjoy hiking KNOWS that. For many those are just tiny stickers/plaques they never even recognize.

As Hike trails are a bit special when it comes to wayspots, Niantic has allowed us to mark the same Hike trail multiple times within reasonable distance (wich should be around 200 meters for the same hike trail), as it would be unreasonable to just mark one point of a 100 km Hike trail. Many reviewers get confused by this and chose “not distinct” if they see another wayspot for the same trail on the Map, even if it is in reasonable distance.

Also some ways of marking a Hike Trail are harder to get through, as some people consider them “Non permanent”, especially those painted with weather resistant colors, to my personal frustration, because they are… (but that would lead to far for now), but also weathered down markers that have not been replaced yet (but will eventually. If thats the problem, just wait for your local hiking association to renew it)

Metal markers should be consoidered permanent easily. I think the problem might be the “distinct” part, if theres a marker of the same trail too close nearby.

Also: When submitting Hike trails, always try to find out things about the specific trail (like the Name (in my Area local trails are marked with a letter and a number, like H10, but they actually have names), where it leads, if it has a Theme, Highlights on the Track, etc.) to be able to write a nice description. “Nice Hike Trail” is just not very appealing as a description.

More important is the supporting Info. You should ALWAYS add a trail Map, and most of the longer trails have websites where you can find Maps, so reviewers can verify the trail actually leads where you pinned the wayspot (as it would be too easy to just fabricate fake spots without a Map to verify the location).

In my community, this trail Map (https://hiking.waymarkedtrails.org/) is very popular, as it has many trails, wich you can select independendly, and it allows to have the coordinates in the Link, so reviewers always get a map of the location you are submitting in (example: Waymarked Trails - Hiking )

It’s very convenient, and also helps you to find hike trails to explore and submit in your Area.

I think many reviewers also just choose an option to directly decline a hike trail when no map is provided. So this might also be the issue here.

Also not all Trailmarkers are alike. As stated, there is the marker itself, wich can be considered more or less permanent ( :face_with_symbols_on_mouth: ) but also the positioning of the wayspot.

Spots on crossings are top-knotch. They help orientation and prevent hikers from going the wrong way, so those are strong candidates.

Anyways, there are also trailmarkers we in germany call “Versicherungszeichen” (Assurance signs) wich exist on longer stretches of the trail to assure hikers that they didnt miss a crossing and are still on the trail. Those are important too, as they prevent hikers from tracking back when in doubt and keep them on the trail with the good feeling of knowing that they didn’t miss a crossing. Those are also good, but less strong than those at crossings. With those you should be careful to not overdo it, but they can be good wayspots too.

As in all things wayfarer, its the reviewers judgement that decides in the end, and so there are stronger and weaker candidates. A weathered down assurance sign on a stretch where other wayspots already exist, or two crossings are not too far from each other, isn’t very likely to go through, while a brand new trailmarker at a crossing is a very good candidate that will most likely go through (always assuming the whole submission is made well, with trail map and description).

I hope you’ll have fun submitting Hike Trails in your Area and my info was helpful to improve your submissions, so you’ll have more success in getting your wayspots approved.

Edit: Seems i replied to the wrong comment ^^ sorry, but it should fit anyways, i think.

1 Like

Hey Danke für diese Ausführliche Antwort,

Ja die Beschriebenen Punkte haben wir stehts beachtet und ja ich kann verstehen wenn zwei Schilder nebeneinander hängen das diese als Kopie gehandhabt werde und dann ein Stopp zwei Bilder hat die nicht wirklich zusammenhängen weil 50m entfernt. Aufkleber sind hier gerade sehr schwer… Aber wie du schon sagst sind die “Nicht Wanderer” unter uns haben dafür leider nicht so den Blick. Als Beispiel wir haben hier zwei Routen die Wir aktuell einreichen. Einen europäischen Kulturweg der aus Schildern und Aufklebern besteht. Die Schilder gehen recht gut die Aufkleber eher nicht. Dann noch einen DAV Weg der aus Aufklebern und Baummarkierungen besteht offizieler Wanderweg mit Link und allem trotzdem ist bisher nur eine von ca. 12 akzeptiert worden. Auch gut…

Was mich aber extrem madig macht sind solche Beispiele die als nicht Permanent oder ähnlichem abgelehnt werden. Der Stopp befindet sich mitten im nirgendwo rundherum sind bisher keine Stopps.
Aber gut ich werde mir dein Tips bei einer zweiten Runde nochmal ganz genau zu herzen nehmen.

Quick question. How many of this thing in the entire trail

Frankly i personally tried to submit jogging marker every 100m and they got rejected because its “not distinct”. I am thinking to cut down rhe number of the marker i submit