Trail / Way Markers Still Being Gatekeeped

[draculgaming]

I’m getting slightly annoyed at the constant recent denial now of legit way markers on public hiking routes. Namely on this Church2Church trail in the Midlands, UK.

How can I resolve a denial reason of mismatched location… ? No StreetView in fields sadly and I now don’t have the ability to make one anymore. I have pushed many times for Niantic to implement this ability into the nomination procedure, it’s all there, Google API is free source, it just needs coding.

Please look at the screenshots and see what you think.

[gazzas89]

The last one i think youll struggle to get theough as its just a public footpath marker. The first one may also be, im mot 100% sure either way. The middle one though, thats bullkaka, that should have been accepted, especially on appeal

[frealafgb]

I have had some trail markers rejected on appeal
too. It’s sad. This was a rejection this week for a council biking route from a nearby village into the town centre-promoting sustainable travel and healthy lifestyle, so I think eligible under exercise. The appeals team also reject national trails so, no prejudice there against local routes, they just generally don’t seem to accept trail stuff very consitently. Things get in eventually but takes multiple attempts

[26thDoctor]

Those are fantastic examples of what submitters should be doing for trail markers and especially for PROW markers. You could have added a link to the Warwickshire definitive map and statement for the public footpaths but I don’t think it would have changed the outcome to be honest.

Pretty disappointing rejections

Links for the definite map and statement. The second one is painful to view on mobile

Map

Definitive map and statement

[Sekhmet2800bc]

Your first example with rejection reason “mismatched location” is a prime example of the (for lack of a better word) “narrow-mindedness” of the community. Logically speaking, if there were no trail running through, why on earth would somebody make a nomination in the middle of nowhere? I give nominations the benefit of the doubt unless I can prove that the nomination does not make sense or it clearly doesn’t match with the context picture.
And moreover I see you’ve provided ample evidence in the supplementary information.

[frealafgb]

@Sekhmet2800bc

I give nominations the benefit of the doubt unless I can prove that the nomination does not make sense or it clearly doesn’t match with the context picture

I believe that if what we are supposed to do - I think we are only supposed to say the location is wrong if we know its wrong.

[GeneralSecura]

Public footpath marker? You mean like these ones from the criteria clarification?

[shritwod]

The first and third ones are just generic footpath markers, you will need to persuade the reviewers that they are a trail

The second one is a sticky label which I would personally vote for, but it’s really hard to get the sticky label ones approved.

To help confirm the location the very best thing is a photosphere, but Google makes those very difficult. One trick I find is to use OpenStreetMap, if the trail is in OSM you can easily create a link to a map with the route highlighted, for example - Relation: ‪Milton Keynes Boundary Walk‬ (‪15093867‬) | OpenStreetMap

Not perfect, but it does at least confirm that the trail goes through the area of the map.

[gazzas89]

Me personally i would have said pu lic footpath isnt acceptbale, it woukd be like submitting a generic direction

[26thDoctor]

This has been posted previously but it’s easier to repeat than find

In England and Wales lots of those public footpaths/Public rights of Way/Prow have been used for hundreds of years connecting cities, towns, churches, markets etc etc. At the same time some are just a path around the shops to Tesco.

Those paths and their use have been enshrined in law. Each county council is legally obliged to provide and maintain a definitive map and a definitive statement on every single prow. Each marker has a specific use. Yellow arrows are for pedestrians, blue are bridleways for use by pedestrians/horse riders. There is a couple of other colours that include outdated forms of transport so it’s rare to see them. I think it might be illegal to cycle on a prow but can’t remember 100%.

https://www.hants.gov.uk/thingstodo/countryside/blog/20200424-public-rights-of-way-and-their-history

https://www.oss.org.uk/eightieth-anniversary-of-milestone-law-for-walkers-and-riders/

In Scotland the same paths that have been used for the same reasons also exist. Unlike our lovely neighbours they were not legally protected. There was always an implied right of public access in Scotland largely due to the land in Scotland being owned by a ridiculously small amount of people. Something like less than 50 people owned 75% of Scotland. The implied access meant farmers, landowners would leave a track around their fields, paths through the country were worn and established, as long as you didn’t walk through their crops, fish in their rivers, bother the sheep in Aberdeen etc everyone just got on with it and was generally happy.

Some of those landowners realising the paths had no legal rights in the same way as they do in Eng and Wal challenged the right of the public to use them.

The Scottish Government passed a land reform act in 2003 to protect the access and partly to stop the push from private landowners infringing on the public access.

https://www.apidura.com/journal/freedom-to-roam-in-scotland-everything-you-need-to-know/#:~:text=The%20Land%20Reform%20Act%202003,as%20’freedom%20to%20roam’.

Scotsways is an 1850’s charity that maintains, protects and catalogue those paths.

There is a general right of access to all land and inland water in Scotland, although some land is excluded from access altogether and where access is allowed people must behave in a responsible manner. Some people call this the “right to roam”, but a better name would be the “right of responsible access”
scotways

TL;DR

If someone submits a public footpath with links, info on its use, where it goes, what you can see it’s as valid as any ‘official’ trail and it’s marker.

If someone submits

Public Footpath

Nice walk

It’s a public footpath

They can get tae f*!I

[draculgaming]

All these Waymarkers are used on an official hiking walk called Church2Church. Which I did explain in the supporting information of each one, with additional links. This is the same with the Millstones to Milestones ( a hiking based around visiting old windmills, especially the one by this Waypoint). Here’s the windmill.

[draculgaming]

I gave several links explaining it’s role and position on several walks. You’ve the Seven Shires Walk and Church2Church , which both utilise these ‘Public’ Waymarkers.

[draculgaming]

I gave the website and tried to give the best supporting photo I could. I do wish I could submit a photosphere at the location.

[26thDoctor]

Definitely why I thought it was a poor rejection.
The latest criteria as pointed out by @GeneralSecura uses almost the exact same image and the text clarifies this by saying prove why these meet the criteria, which you did.

[draculgaming]

I do try my best to submit the best surrounding photo I can. I do agree with your statement of narrow-minded Ness by the community who vote in this area. What I would love to see, is my nominations and others plastered all over the Telegram Voting Ring. Where I am personally named and shamed by several “Elitist” reviewers who just totally ignore the clarifications and nuance criteria recently shown. All they care about is their own rules and opinions on what should or shouldn’t be put through to Lightship and Niantic games. Sorry for ranting but I walked for 2 hours that day, up the hill to that glorious windmill, which it self is a waypoint and also a Waymarker to the south of it. All mine did were link it up there from the village. I do appreciate all your replies. And I hope this gets through to people who do reviewers these markers.

PS. Put 360 location submission into the nomination process!!

[draculgaming]

I do enjoy doing the close portrait mode photos .

[draculgaming]

It’s very frustrating I agree. Especially when these things cover ALL 3 of the Pillars. Exercise, Exploration and Walking/ Talking with your mates (preferably playing Niantic Mobile games!!). What is better than going on a walk, with a tonne of spawns on these trails… High chance of nests on these. Plus these trials also are seen in the game map on screen… So you don’t go off course. I will persist.

[elijustrying]

My view is these fit the criteria, as you have made a very good case. And I would have hoped an appeal would have been upheld.

I don’t know if there is anything you can do in these instances to try and make the few clues on the ground match with the map/ satelitte view.

Things to watch out for. Avoid people in the supplementary. Yes yes it shouldn’t matter, but 2 of those have people one with a very clear face, it could start to look like submitter identifiable, especially if you got a few in quick succession. So just try to avoid people having that thought.

And my preference is for shorter titles and let the description do more work.

But basically good trail markers
Oh and I’m refusing to call these stickers as I think it’s confusing. These are vinyl signs/markers.

[draculgaming]

I did tell my daughter there to turn around. But she has autism so she has to stay with me. She also doesn’t do steep inclines. Yes the Milestone is a vinyl sticker and designed to be heavily resistant to the elements. I think I’m just going to have to farm appeals on these, while alternating resubmissions. Having over 900 accepted waypoints I’m going for that 1000!

[Sabrosa85]

I’ve had a lot of luck with EMiLy lately, I went on a long trail run, and I nominated 20 things, predominantly trail markers, 17 where approved the following day!