The markers are in service of the trail, not the trail in service of the markers
Maybe my wording isn’t clear. As that is exactly what I am saying.
There has to be something for the trail to exist in the database, and that something is a marker. It might have many markers along the trail or it it might have one at the start.
These neighborhood signs imply “welcome to” just like the “welcome to such-and-such city” signs do, even if they don’t contain the words “welcome to”. I approve using explore criterion. Are you saying that the unit of exploration is too small (neighborhood or subdivision vs. town or city)? I’m not trying to be dogmatic, I’m really trying to understand what seems like a serious difference to you. My inclination is to approve waypoints that may be important to a neighborhood even if they wouldn’t be important to me personally.
These neighborhood place markers are simply billboards for the real estate. Would you take a visitor to go see a neighborhood sign? How is it a GREAT place to be social, exercise, or explore, the criteria a Wayspot has to meet? I don’t think anyone is arguing for either of the first two, and there is nothing interesting about most neighborhood entrances. I do make exception for artistic or historical signs.
I don’t agree that they’re simply billboards for real estate companies. Many neighborhoods have homes owned and re-sold by the occupants, even if the first ones were built by a larger company. Would I take someone to such a sign? Maybe not, but I’d definitely refer to it when giving directions, and I personally feel as if such signs are an important part of the neighborhoods I work in. As for “nothing interesting about most neighborhood entrances,” I can’t argue with the way you feel. But me, the web of social, historical, economic, and political influences that shape each neighborhood can never be boring. When I see a neighborhood sign that’s what I see… layers of complexity of which I have no awareness and for the most part never will. But I know that complexity is there and is important to people who live there, and that’s why I think a neighborhood sign is almost always notable. It’s great because our neighborhoods are great.
But me, the web of social, historical, economic, and political influences that shape each neighborhood can never be boring. When I see a neighborhood sign that’s what I see… layers of complexity of which I have no awareness and for the most part never will. But I know that complexity is there and is important to people who live there
this is so many words to try and justify some boring signs that no one looks at or thinks about in boring, nearly identical suburbs.
are some neighborhoods interesting? maybe a bit. are they important to the people who live there? possibly, but not really in a way that outsiders can or will “explore”.
these signs aren’t any more interesting than any of the other bland generic stuff that the suburbs are full of. they may as well be street signs or utility poles.
the only reason anyone pretends they’re anything special is because they want a wayspot closer to home.
I live in one of these neighborhoods with such a sign, surrounded by dozens of others barely different.
do I like my neighborhood? yes, I think it’s one of the better ones in the area. but that doesn’t make the sign eligible in any way. none of what I like about living here is something that could be “explored” by anyone who doesn’t live here nor does the sign represent the possibility of exploration. no one socializes at the sign, no one exercises there.
Sorry to be long-winded, but TBH your reply is at least as long as mine!
FWIW I have never lived in a suburb, but I have worked in them a lot. None of this is about me having pokestops available to me personally. I am here to learn from people who have been doing this longer than I have, but it is depressing feel like you’re slamming my aesthetic sense and politics, which are what i think of as the “your own best judgement” area.
So to be brief, when I’m in a new neighborhood, I see an architectural sign (not a road sign) that says the name of some community, I feel like I did a libit exploring. You’re saying I have to explore more than that to be exploring; is this a fair summary of what you’re saying?
You can also feel like you’re exploring when you see street signs. In fact, that’s much more likely a universal experience than what you’re trying to describe. “Oh, this is Flat Shoals Rd.” Or “Huh, i didn’t realize this street cut through to Moreland.” I have those moments all the time. But that doesn’t mean the street signs are eligible. Not every item that causes you to have a personal epiphany can be a POI.
Are these type of signs in the US typically on large suburban estates?
In the UK we’d call them new builds and they are often deliberately designed to discourage walking through them.
That really doesn’t answer their question.
small and large ones yes, in fact i think part of the reason that there’s such an obsession with them becoming eligible is because even the smallest (~dozen homes) neighborhoods have a sign even when they have no other amenities which are eligible. Drive around the burbs and every turn into a neighborhood will have one of these signs.
Here’s an example. This parcel was previously undeveloped when the older neighborhood around it was constructed, within the last 6 years it got sold to a developer who put up 14 homes and slapped a sign out front.
Sorry if you feel slammed, but a statement like “But me, the web of social, historical, economic, and political influences that shape each neighborhood can never be boring.” is just ludicrous to me and it feels like an unreal stretch to go from “people have complex inner lives” to “the sign out front of their neighborhood is a great place to explore”
To be frank, I just don’t believe you actually think this? if you do, ok you do you and i’m sorry.
It still depends on the location, to me this looks like private property. 
Doesn’t matter if it’s private property if it doesn’t meet criteria to begin with 
generally speaking, the land on which the sign is placed will not be part of an individual home’s lot though in the smaller neighborhoods it sometimes might be.
To add to this, some sprawling neighborhoods will have different sections to them. Sometimes those sections represent a different price point from the builder - lots are a little bigger, features in homes are a little bit nicer, etc. They will often put up less grandiose signs to mark where those sections begin so people get that exclusive living feel when driving past the sign
I worked in homebuilding for 14 years. It’s all nonsense.
I still feel that they belong to a grey area. 
Or to be exact: I feel that Niantic feels that they belong to a grey area. It wouldn’t be that hard to weed these out. And they are by far not the worst things I see regularly accepted. Manhole covers would have to be at the top of my list. 
To me the one thing that everyone needs to think about is location. I myself have submitted these before and the reason is we live in a rural area that done not have a lot of places for stops. Also like others have said these are used for meeting places for the kids, who then walk the neighborhoods.
So if the kids decide to meet at the stop sign, should we accept that?
A place to meet up just so you can then leave it does not match any of the 3 tenets of the criteria.
Yeah for me a good place to meet up and socialise is the place you go to and spend some time, not the meeting point where you immediately leave
While I do tend to believe Neighborhood and City Signs should be explore worthy, and some communities like Florida famously approve.
I don’t think your example, is matters to the question. Because a stop sign wouldn’t be unique or distinct, and presumably a neighborhood sign would be.
There are a few actual artistic/historic ones, and even some with architecture or gathering areas with a nice view, but a vast majority are generic and I would say mass produced even though some might argue the machined names that differ are “unique”.
I would love to see some more clarification, but that’s been my understanding so far.
