Sign to honor the way dedicated to a Vietnam vet. Provides historical context to the neighborhood and its residents. On a residential street with public sidewalk. On the public city-maintained light utility pole along with the regular street signs for the intersection. Easy and safe to access.
The original rejection was that this wasn’t public. My appeal changed it to “The submission lacks uniqueness or historical and cultural meaning”. And the appealer responded with:
“The nomination in question does not meet the Wayfarer criteria as it seems like a generic street sign.”
Personally I find that insulting. Given that I have submitted and had approved much less just down the street in Carondolet Park. To say this doesn’t have cultural significance given what we see every day as waypoints is actually quite insulting. They had a ceremony when they did the dedication and the friends & family of S. Sgt. Ron Bozikis maintain flowers here.
I’ve sat on this all morning but I’m still quite mad about it. You need to do better.
The sign in the street view does appear to just be a street name sign, albeit a red one instead of what looks to be the regular green ones. It doesn’t appear to have any additional information about this person and doesn’t seem to specify that it’s a memorial anywhere on it.
We have roads named after former kings, queens, princes and princesses here, and I wouldn’t think of submitting their signs as wayspots, as whilst they do give their names to those streets, they are still just street signs and not specifically memorials.
Notice the flag and flowers that the friends and family keep at the memorial.
The ordinance creating the memorial:
I was there the day they dedicated the memorial but I didn’t take any pictures. I’ve poked around to see if I can find anyone who did and posted them. This looks like some of the same group but they don’t have any pictures from the street:
And unfortunately a lot of soldiers died in the Vietnam war. Every family will feel that deeply. It is nice that the city is marking their role.
From the point of view of wayfarer…..
I would equate this to a memorial bench and use the standards around that as I would say a bench like a street sign is a basic item that can be used as a memorial.
As you can see the only memorials eligible are those that are notable. This is because they need to be distinctive.
For this nomination to be eligible I would expect there to be information that they did something exceptional as a soldier, a high level of medal to mark something particularly heroic.
I would then expect that detail in the nomination. The street sign simply gives the name. I have seen similar signs which give the name and brief details of the special medals and action that they took. But there is nothing like that on this sign.
It is touching that care is taken to leave flowers which shows he is very much missed ( and I routinely see this with benches) but they are not part of what is nominated.
What is nominated is the street sign which does not look distinctive and from what has been said does not mark something exceptional. It is really nice that the local authority is recognising all these people and they are thus continuing to be remembered. But not everything can go in the database of wayspots and so it needs to be exceptional.
I have submitted and have had approved at least three memorial benches for the local park that had nothing more than the text of the memorial and that there were other benches in the park that were already way points. I actually did a raid at a gym that was put up at one of them earlier this week.
The reasons for denying this memorial have changed twice. And the excuses for why it should continue to be denied are paper thin given the ample evidence that you are applying a much more significant standard to this submission than others. I’ll argue that there’s more for this submission than any of the memorial benches I’ve already had approved
I’ve done what I can here. And my case is good. This should be a waypoint. It’s time for those with the power to make it so to do the right thing.
I submitted and had those benches approved in the past month. The generic memorial bench is the bread and butter of every single park around here. The only reason this is being discussed is that it isn’t one of the variety of milquetoast waypoints in a park that just skate on by.
I’m honestly stunned by that reply. Given that I included specific evidence that the way was dedicated to a decorated Vietnam war vet. And I still find it insulting to say that this doesn’t meet the nebulous bar of having “cultural meaning”.
Let’s not even get into the fact that the original reason for denying it was that it “wasn’t public”. I don’t know when that changed to “lacks uniqueness or historical and cultural meaning”. But I clearly addressed in my appeal that this spot is definitely public since that was the original reasoning.
I’ll run the idea that this lacks “historical and cultural meaning” by my military buddies but will spare you the responses since I’m sure I’d get banned.
This is not particularly difficult. It is simply that none of the reviewers of your submission were aware of the criteria, just as you were not. Although it was requested that the playground be submitted as a whole rather than as individual pieces of equipment, individual pieces of equipment continue to be submitted and accepted.
As a general rule, in any field, when a new rule is established and conflicts with an old one, the new rule takes precedence.
We should submit and review according to the current criteria.
The inconsistency of this process is quite bad. I have a lot to say about that.
But to be clear, you are saying that the service, untimely death in said service, and the community coming together to create a memorial for this veteran doesn’t meet the nebulous requirement of “historical and cultural meaning." Which says a lot about you.
Exactly what criteria does this waypoint not meet? As far as I can tell it meets them all in spades. The only bit of information in my submission that I’d include next time is that this was installed due to a city ordinance because there was significant community effort to get his sacrifice recognized.
I am glad that you have taken the time to find out about me.
I am in the UK (that’s another fact for you) so it isn’t me you have to convince, here many streets are named after famous people, Kings, Queens, and to stick with the war theme Churchill. You will sometimes get estates where every street is named by a specific theme so if there is a military base close by they could all be named after people from the war. Due to the numbers it makes these not distinct.
If you can provide evidence that this is not a common thing with this one being 1 of a very small number of these you have a chance.
Until then it’s not the war vet that is Generic, its the street sign with someones name on it.
It sounds like it was originally rejected by local reviewers, so if these do not believe this is eligible then you may struggle to convince others.
I understand that he was adored by many who knew him in life and still mourn his passing, but you have not demonstrated that he was a prominent figure. By the criterias of a memorial bench, your proposal is inadequate. Had there been no war, he might have achieved greatness. If not, he would have played an important role in society and now enjoys his retirement surrounded by his family. Since your proposal is sensitive, we are trying to choose our words and communicate criteria to you while respecting his..
