Another failed Survey Mark. Same as 99.99999% of all marks. Fails criteria clarification as common, mass produced. Dangerous Postion on road kerb. Support information trying to influence by saying safe. Supporting photo no show. POI position on kerb and well looks like in a drive way?
Clean up the DB. Auto stop the nominations. Come on. Or is Niantic OK with all these dangerous placed nominations??? Are you OK with people gaming the system??? Are you OK with nominations that clearly fail the criteria???
Please calm down. Perhaps eMiLy is out sick again after catching a cold from the recent Cloudflare outage. Or maybe the Wayfarer team put out some candies that look delicious but taste absolutely bitter when you eat them!
ML doesn’t need to reject everything that is rejectable, simply because it got through ML doesn’t mean they’re okay with the things you question.
We understand that you continue to be upset by this. However, as long as the clarification says that survey markers may be eligible, they will continue to get submitted. Thus, it’s up to us to make sure the ones that don’t meet criteria do get removed if approved, and we also make sure to reject any that we don’t see meeting criteria.
And, of course, honey pots do get put out to reviewers from time to time, so it could be possible that staff is seeing how reviewers are voting on these ineligible markers. They may also want to know if how many people may be reporting them as possible abuse.
We as Wayfinders have avenues to make sure these don’t get approved by rejecting them, and if approved, we have avenues to request removal even if we can’t reach the location physically. And yes, ML isn’t perfect (hence why it’s called Machine Learning), so it’s not always going to pick up on everything that may not meet criteria.
These are identifiable enough that if Niantic wanted to exclude them, they could do so very easily without risking other eligible markers. I understand the frustration from @TheDoctorBird, as the failure to exclude them looks intentional.
I don’t think it’s as easy as you think. There are some circular survey markers that may meet criteria, so if ML was trained to reject all circular ones, then the ones that may be eligible would get rejected. I have seen some unique circular markers while reviewing, including one with a cypher on it, and I approved that one, as it was next to a bench along a walking path. I wouldn’t want the person that submitted that one to have to appeal it because it was circular and ML was trained to reject that shape.
Really, this is up to those in Australia educating others about these generic mass-produced markers, as this is in the Criteria Clarification Collection for survey markers, which in turn is in the help center and the Wayfarer website help pages:
So, until submitters learn these may not be eligible due to being mass-produced, then it’s up to reviewers to keep rejecting them, which in turn will also help in the education efforts when they get rejected and, hopefully, rejected if appealed.
I would accept that if there were not so many of them
As for ML - it is a simple set of exclusion rules. You can teach the submission sytem to exclude really rapidly. Wanna get sophisticated. Image recognition.. You do not even need true ML for it. You use the ML for people gaming the system once they realise exclusion rules are in play.
I hear you. I hear everyone. But my key point is this is really easy to solve.
As for training reviewers to read critera or criteria clarifications. There is a phrase from a great movie.. " Tell 'em they are dreaming".
If niantic or other reviewers remotely believe the vast vast majority of reviewers and submitters have even bothered to fully read the criteria LET alone come into the Forum and look at the Criteria Clarifications then we have a real problem on our hands.
I fully 100% know that some Marks are actually pretty cool. The first one ever. The boarder ones. The Trig points (there is one I go to that has the most amazing sunrise cliff top views). There are some amazing ones on the top of mountains (Norway for example). They don’t look like these 2 inch disks nailed to road kerb. And don’t number in the 100’s and 100’s and 100’s of thousands. Whose same style is also used by railways, utility companies. councils (cemetaries for one)… And you know I can download the DB of all of these for Niantic if they want them to empower their DB.
IF these posts can help educate then good. IF Niantic even bother to read and actually go yeah we can fix this. Even better. Until then I will keep making noise…
I hear you. Same for any nomination. What I am asking that Wayfarer solve it technically and remove that element
Still easy to solve. You make a hard decision. The risk of these to game integrity, abuse of process, danger for nominators and players equals X. Remove from game..
Technically easy to resolve.
To your point. Totally valid for any and every nomination.
Unfortunately, game players will believe that the things they can see are good wayspots.
So the same problem will continue to occur unless all survey markers currently visible on the PoGo map are removed except for things that are deemed valuable.
And the new trainers will say, when their nominations are rejected.
“Please answer clearly why the survey marker next to it is GOOD and the survey marker I submitted is BAD.”
Wayfarer will ultimately fail if it cannot answer this question in a way that is consistent across the past, present, and future.
The same will occur for reviewers.
Reviewers fear that their own review rate will be lowered by rejecting a newly submitted survey marker.
The result is an endless proliferation of junk survey markers, which is inevitable when one considers human psychology as well.
Well, now that the Wayfarer map has been split into the Wayfarer and Recon maps, it can be said that the Wayfarer map has been clarified as a Scopely (Niantic) game map, so there may be no problem if the survey markers keep multiplying when considered as a game map.
But then the Wayfarer map would become a game map with meaningless points of interest registered, and would lose its value as a map with registered POIs.
Of course, I don’t expect all of you Wayfinders here to agree that the Wayfarer map will become a worthless map.
I don’t want Wayfarer maps to become worthless maps either.
I think everyone should think about how to dispose of these massively proliferated junk way spots in the future.
I would not go as far as your comments but understand the frustration. I am a strong believer that anything that does not match todays Acceptance Criteria should reach the Removal Criteria.
Unfortunately, it’s not Niantics policy. If it gets in then only specific scenarios will be removed.
There also seems like discrepancies, I reported 2 power spots at SFPRP on the same estate a couple of doors apart, 1 removed the other “does not meet removal criteria”.
My thoughts are “I did my bit” job done, down to Niantic to do there’s. If they don’t, not worth losing sleep over it.
