Criteria Clarification Collection - Discussion

I replied to you, but my message got flagged, and even after I removed and posted a slightly different message, it still got flagged and deleted, so I guess I will never be able to reply to you :slightly_frowning_face:

That is ok. I saw it via email. I am considering doing that and selecting something, but I might just wait to see if a different bot answers on the form.

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How about a Clarification on “Removal” Reasons.

Removal isn’t the same as Ineligible.
If a piece of coal makes it in game, or was in the game before Criteria was changed, it doesn’t get removed just because people report it unless it was abuse, fake, or dangerous.

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According to Eligibility Criteria — Wayfarer Help Center, fountains are eligible. Does it apply to all fountains (working or not), or only to actually working fountains that circulate water?

Referring from this, it is more about its visual uniqueness. Plus the required pedestrian accessibility.

There may be more reasons as to how a specific fountain would meet eligibility but less about its functionality in most IMO, submitter’s onus as usual to provide that in review.

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Oh wait, I just thought of those dancing fountains. The ability to synchronize water circulation is the primary lean there IMO.

Many fountains are visually distinctive and have artistic merit whether the water is circulating or not.
There are some where the water dancing is the visual element.
The former I don’t think are reliant on water to be considered as functional wayspot. The later type are not so clear cut and falls into the “it depends” area.
Since they rely on pumps to ensure water circulation it’s hardly surprising that there are times when they are not functioning because of broken equipment. It may take time to repair. In some places they may shut down at some times of year - water shortage or health and safety concerns eg ice.
I am aware of some Victorian fountains in parks that are ornate and a key feature but no longer functioning as a water feature, but I would consider a valid POI in its own right.
So if reporting it you would need to demonstrate that it is a permanent closure and is no longer a point of interest.

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I start to feel like no matter what I say, multiple Ambassadors will misunderstand my point, flip it upside down, and give an answer to something completely different. Also, I put this particular question in this particular thread because I would like a clarification from Niantic, not an opinion from other players. If I wanted player opinions, I’d ask my question in Review Support - Niantic Wayfarer.

But let me try to make it more clear for Niantic:

According to Wikipedia, “A fountain, from the Latin “fons” (genitive “fontis”), meaning source or spring, is a decorative reservoir used for discharging water. It is also a structure that jets water into the air for a decorative or dramatic effect.”

According to Eligibility Criteria — Wayfarer Help Center, fountains are eligible. Does it apply to all fountains (those working and circulating water in some way as well as those permanently not working and not discharging water in any way at all), or only to fountains that are actually working and circulating water in some way, even if they might be temporary off for whatever reason?

I asked this question because I saw a wayspot of this non-working fountain…:

…and it got me thinking - is it a fountain, or is it basically a planter? I understand the artistic merit part (the only part from your answer that is related to my question), but then a lot of fountains are very similar, and some of those small ones can be purchased at home improvement stores. For example, the fountain above is very similar to this one, which is not even a block away:

This is why I want to know - should permanently non-working fountains be approved just because they look like fountains, or are fountains required to circulate water in order to be considered fountains and not planters?

This is exactly the kind of rules lawyering Niantic tried to eliminate when they changed the criteria to

Must meet at least one of the three eligibility criteria

  • A great place for exploration
  • A great place for exercise
  • A great place to be social with others

A fountain is a good Wayspot if it promotes exploration. Not because it does or doesn’t circulate water.

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I don’t see how a fountain that doesn’t function as a fountain but rather as a planter promotes exploration. Even Eligibility Criteria — Wayfarer Help Center lists “Fountains and water features” under “A great place to be social with others”, not under “A great place for exploration”. And if your argument will be “Well, there’s a wayspot, so you gonna go there and explore”, my counter-argument will be “The point of wayspots related to exploring is to show that there is something worth exploring. Otherwise I will start nominating random light poles - here’s a light pole, now go explore the area”.

And you are also not from Niantic :slightly_smiling_face:

And this topic is “Criteria Clarification Collection - Discussion” so anyone can post a response. The whole criteria refresh from 2020 was to get rid of yes this, no that responses, and I am THRILLED that Niantic has relented enough to provide clarifications and examples. And I don’t want them to take that all back because of people drilling down on points of minutiae in this manner. They took them all away once, and I don’t want that to happen again.

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My understanding is that this thread is for people to ask Niantic to clarify things, not for people to explain what they think about this or that request. But feel free to argue here, as long as it doesn’t break any forum rules :slightly_smiling_face:

What there tells you that this thread is for people to ask Niantic to clarify things? This has been a discussion among forum users from the first day.

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Most posts here are about requests for clarifications, so I am waiting for Niantic’s response on all the different requests I and others made. But hey, we can argue here, too, until Niantic or ambassadors tell us to stop :grin:

Of course I’m not from Niantic, but I feel like this is a place for discussion, but not necessarily a place for Niantic to respond. If I think in good faith, I think Niantic is trying to make the Criteria better by not only listening to their own ideas, but also listening to everyone’s ideas. Therefore, I hope that what is discussed and concluded in the community will be sorted out and reflected in Criteria.
Although this place is a place for discussion, there are no restrictions on the subject, and I think it would be better to narrow the discussion to something like the 18 items set up by Niantic Tintino in the Criteria Clarification Collection. If the target is not listed here, I think it would be a good idea to add a new item. 18 items include “fountain” and the following description: “Fountains are often places where people can go to meet, socialize and explore if they are visually unique.”

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Re-reading this part, I am now more confused :grin: Does it mean fountains need to be visually unique to explore only, or visually unique to both meet, explore, and socialize (meaning if they are working fountains but not unique, they don’t qualify)? :grin:

But that still doesn’t clarify dry fountains. I guess if they are unique part of architecture, they can be approved because then they would fall under “A great place for exploration” as “Unique Art or Architecture”. But what if they are dry and not unique? If they are dry, they are technically not fountains because of definition (they don’t discharge water in any way), and if they aren’t unique, then they are just like any other mundane object and should not be approved, right?

A general post to clarify.

There should be no expectation that the Wayfarer Team will reply to any requests for specific clarification. They may take note to consider as part of any more general update at some future point.

It is not a question and answer topic.

Anyone can raise and contribute to discussions around criteria in this topic. This can usefully allow for peer support and a shared understanding to develop. This is important as wayfarer is (with a few exceptions regarding ineligibility) about judgement calls within broad guidelines.

Respect each others contributions.

Edited to clarify this post is a general reminder that applies to recent points raised and not about any individual.

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After this niantic decision:

I’m nearly sure, that they are not picky in questions of fountains.
But we will see

At least it discharges water :laughing:

I know some places have community water fountains, and I don’t know if this water is drinkable, but this fountain may be eligible.

Maybe Google Translate isn’t quite right, but Elijustrying, are you suggesting that I don’t respect each other’s contributions? If so, I would appreciate it if you could tell me specifically which part applies so that I can post correctly in the future.
Itsutsume said, ““Fountains and water features” under “A great place to be social with others”, not under “A great place for exploration”. Therefore, I posted part of the description of “Fountain” set in the Criteria Clarification Collection by Niantic Tintino, which Paulingzubat also quoted. (Itsutsume also said, “It’s in human nature to better remember last things said, so “you don’t have to” part is what will be remembered, not “yes, you can do better”. That’s why I wrote a quote at the end of the sentence.)