City Vs Rural - Double Standards

Hello Wayfarers,

I logged in today to see how some of my outstanding nominations are coming along. I noted when I logged in that featured on the homepage is a Wayspot accepted for a sign that marks a Residential Neighborhood (Valley Ridge Estates) in a nearby city. That’s a fair submission, I would have approved it too. Here’s the rub: I nominated a near identical (not the same neighbourhood or location) wayspot local to me, at Pelican View Estates on the north shore of Buffalo Lake. This is an upscale 4-season neighbourhood with million dollar residences. There are no way spots in Pelican View Estates, this would have been the first. Families live here. My nomination didn’t make the home page, because it was rejected. The reasons listed say it’s “seasonal” (it’s not - people live here full time, this isn’t a seasonal community), and that it’s a “generic business” (it’s not a business at all, it’s a lakefront neighborhood).

It’s frustrating as a Rural player, who is already handicapped by a lack of both way spots and a good player base, to see wayspot after wayspot in cities accepted (if I see one more Utility box approved, I am going to scream), whereas our contributions are scrutinized and approval delayed for days and weeks.

Any idea why my nomination would be rejected whereas the one submitted for Valley Ridge would be celebrated on the home page as a five star submission?


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Generally these signs are regarded as not meeting wayfarer criteria, as they’re not great places to socialise, exercise or explore. Some of the more artistic ones may qualify for their artistry, but generic signs like your examples would generally be considered not distinct (hence you getting that rejection reason, and the often misused “generic business” reason to tell you that your sign is generic).

I can appreciate you’re getting conflicting signals, given that one is in the showcase (those seem to be chosen entirely at random) and you may see others accepted when they likely should’ve been rejected. My best advice would be to ask yourself if you think your nomination is a great place to socialise, a great place to exercise, or a great place to explore, rather than comparing to what you might already see elsewhere.

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Neighborhood signs typically don’t make good waypoints as they dont typically meet any of the three criteria. The fact that one is featured doesnt mean its being celebrated or endorsed as a “five star” waypoint. It just means it was accepted recently. Bad approvals happen from time to time.

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“A Great place to socialize”? hmmm. Again, in a city, I see pretty much every Utility box on every street corner has been turned into a Pokestop. Are utility boxes “important to the local community”, “a great place to socialize” (or exercise?). Of course not. This would literally be the only stop in this neighborhood, and folks do walk their dogs by it (I do, and I see other home owners doing the same), so again - Double standards. Does Niantic not want rural players? We pay a small fortune for Remote Raid passes as FTP isn’t a real option out here where the wild things are. If the other wayspot was accepted, this one ought to be also - same criteria, also met.

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First off, this is not a city vs rural issue. It is a gray area of criteria issue.

I hope Niantic will answer you here. I have been begging for a clarification on these.

For your nomination, consider if the builder’s marker there is a great place to socialize? imo no. Is it a great place to exercise? Again, you may walk past it, but there is nothing inherent in the sign to attract you there for exercise. Is it a great place of exploration? Would you take a friend over to come check out the neighborhood sign? I think not. imo this was correctly rejected.

Things get accepted incorrectly way too often, and then are difficult (to impossible) to get removed. I addressed a similar Featured Wayspot quite a while ago, but Niantic still has not weighed in on that one.

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It may be the art on the utility box that would be the point of interest. You can see the distinction between murals, graffiti, and vandalism in this article. Unique Art

Applying the same decision structure as “I see them in game” creates a loop of not eligible wayspots getting accepted (if your utility boxes are truly just the boxes). For submitters, the thought process is how to point out the POI walks on its own two legs by its merits wrt the criteria.

Having said that, the review process is flawed as Hank points out. We are to review each object as presented by the submitter and the UI. Having to accept by object category is an all too common mindset that we should be going away from. Differences in each’s pedestrian access, actual usage, and artistry would create a different decision.

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fwiw, the ones I have seen accepted display art, which is important to the local community. But every Wayspot nomination must be judged by the exercise, exploration, or being social criteria requirement currently in place, regardless of what has or has not been accepted previously.

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The box itself? No. The art on the box? Absolutely! It’s a great place to explore.
If they are just plain boxes, then no they aren’t eligible and shouldn’t have made it through.

The rules of Wayfarer apply evenly to all locations, regardless of the density of points of interest. An eligible POI in one location is just as eligible in another. The fact that more rural areas are less likely to have eligible points of interest isn’t Niantic’s fault and bending the rules so that rural areas would have more stops would be a double standard.

@cyndiepooh nailed the issue right on the head:

This isn’t an issue of rural vs non-rural, this is an issue of understanding what’s eligible and what’s not. Neighbourhood signs are very trendy right now and many are getting approved despite not really meeting any of the criteria.

Just because something makes it onto the map, doesn’t mean it is necessarily eligible, so using an approved Wayspot as a reference to why your nomination should have been approved is, especially in this case, a false equivalency.

I don’t see why either of them is eligible, as they don’t meet any of the Wayfarer criteria, but I also understand that this isn’t something that the Wayfarer community as a whole would reach a consensus on.

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I would say a vinyl wrap on a steel box is not Art. It’s also not important at all to the local community. It’s an overlooked box between the road and the sidewalk that is wrapped only because it’s ugly and they want it to blend in. It shouldn’t be a way spot.

All of the boxes around here are hand painted, not wrapped.

And generally petitioned by the community, approved by a city committee and paid out of city funds. People have to work to make it happen.

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not a double standard, these boring generic signs didn’t meet criteria regardless of location and none should be approved.

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Sure. Now they’re “good places to gather.”

“Hey gang! Wanna go hang at the Utility box tonight? It’s BYOB!”

“No Dawg, I drove past earlier, the Maxwells are hosting their daughter’s wedding there this afternoon.”

“Dang man, that box be poppin’”

“That’s what she said.”

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They’re good places to explore.

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Where I live, all the art wrapped on the boxes are done by local artists, with the title of the work and the artist being credited on the side. There are done in conjunction with the cities, art groups, and business sponsors for the art. Here’s the supporting photo from one I had approved last year showing the art info on the side:

Art is something many people find interesting and worth exploring. Art is subjective, so everyone has different takes and ideas on what the art means, what it’s trying to say, etc. Art is great for exploring, so it does meet the explore criteria; it may not meet the social criteria, unless it’s in a social place, like a coffee shop or a mall.

I also will not approve a neighborhood sign unless it has something else that makes it meet criteria, like artwork or even a pergola. The signs tend to be quite generic and indistinct, and some neighborhoods may even have similar looking signs.

As previously noted, we haven’t gotten clarification on the criteria for accepting or rejecting neighborhood signs, including those at apartments/condos. We have been asking quite a long time for this clarification.

And yes, we have reviewers that will approve neighborhood signs without thinking twice, even if they are on private property or just an advertisement for the building/area. So yes, it’s a grey area, not so much city vs rural.

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Maybe none of those but how about
“City Art Box Visitors Guide”
“Art Box Walk”
“City Art Guide”

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Seriously? Be honest. One does not “explore” a Utility box. You drive past and spin the POI and don’t even register what the damn thing is. I create plenty of Routes along self guided nature trails around here. Those are things you explore. Not a lot of POIs to spin along them, but the views - the lake, the forest, the marshes, the beach… THAT’S exploring. There’s nothing to “explore” in suburbia.

Mod edit

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Then why would people bother creating and visiting them?
Just a quick google search…
https://www.costamesaca.gov/government/departments-and-divisions/parks-and-community-services/arts-culture/public-art/utility-box-art-program

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I wonder what the artists who created the art that’s wrapped on them would say.

I wonder what the city, who paid the artists to create the art that’s wrapped on them would say.

I wonder what the people who stop to enjoy the art that’s wrapped on them would say.

You’re missing the point of what they are for. Art can be many things: Art is meant to enjoy, inspire, evoke feelings, and convey a message to the masses. The art on electrical boxes is meant to be enjoyed by the public, and as such is a great place to explore.

There are at least sixteen in my area. Each of them is a unique piece of art commissioned and paid for by the city. Each of them has a small box with the name of the artist, the name of the piece, and an explanation about its meaning. Yes, they are wrapped, but that doesn’t diminish the story that the art is telling, nor does it negate the fact that it’s art. The pieces were created with this project in mind, with the expectation that they would be turned into wraps for electrical boxes.

Enjoyment of art is subjective. It being art is not.

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Unless we’re talking about mass produced camouflage print :sweat_smile:

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The city nearest me has a load of hand painted utility boxes that all depict various things to do with the city. It’s fun to explore and find more of them and see what the artist has chosen to depict. So yes, they do make great places to explore, much the same as other pieces of art.

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