How best to appeal wayspot criteria?

[Toaster1891]

Hello Wayfarer pals,

I have, unfortunately received my rejection for my first nomination. (please see below)

I was wondering how best to go about the appeal?

Considering the rejection comments in turn:

1. The submission is likely not permanent or distinct. Permenant: This tree is thought to be 250 years old. It is far older than the surrounding housing which was built in the 1960s. The tree is older than the entire development of the town of Welwyn Garden City, which prior to 1920 was entirely farmland. It has shown more permanence than the town it now sits in. Additionally, being an oak, it could reasonably be expected to survive for another 100 or 200 years. Distinct: I take the reviewers point, that one tree can look very much like another, however this is the only Oak tree on the verge, and dominates the others. It is distinct enough to be protected by a tree preservation order (attached) For reviewers outside of UK. This is a legal document which prevents unauthorised cutting and felling of protected trees. This tree is distinct enough to be recognised by law.
2. The submission is suspected to not exist. It does exist, perhaps this was not evidenced well enough. The tree preservation order document shows it’s position clearly on the map on the last page. It is visible from Google maps satellite view, and was the focus of the local campaign outlined in the local newspaper to prevent it from being felled (prior to the tree preservation order).

These would be the grounds I would present for the appeal, do you think the appeal would be successful? If not, why not?

If you could think of any other information I could include?

COPY AND PASTED TEXT BELOW

Pentley Park Boundary Oak
Wayspot Submission

Wayspot Submission for Pentley Park Boundary Oak
England

Not Accepted
2025-09-05

Reviewers provided these top reasons for not accepting this submission:
The submission is likely not permanent or distinct
The submission is suspected to not exist

Description
Welwyn Garden City is unusual for English towns in that it was entirely planned from scratch and did not exist before 1920. This Oak is over 250 years old and ties the modern suburban environment to the older landscape it was built upon. This tree was at risk of being felled, but a local campaign was started to save it. It now has a tree preservation order from the council. It is a social spot too, as picnics and street parties have been held in its shade during summer on the public verge beneath.

Location
Pentley Close, Welwyn Garden City, England, United Kingdom

Supplemental Information

This tree provides a link to the rural landscape existing prior to the creation of Welwyn Garden City, forming a field boundary shown on maps as far back as 1897. More recently, a neighbourhood campaign stopped the tree from being felled, highlighting its value & importance to the local community. See: 250-year-old oak tree in Welwyn Garden City gets temporary reprieve | Welwyn Hatfield Times it is publicly accessible on a wide grass verge where street picnics have been held.

REJECTION SCREENSHOT

Linked Article screenshot

Tree preservation order document

[Toaster1891]

For clarity, the tree preservation order document, though referenced, was not included in the original submissions.

[elijustrying]

Hello and Welcome @Toaster1891

Thanks for asking about this specific nomination and providing lots of information.

A specific tree would need to be considered under the great place to Explore criteria. Having had a campaign to save it and a preservation order helps a little. However tree preservation orders don’t always convey the specific importance of that tree. Most are in place to recognise that trees are an important part of the landscape and biodiversity. Rather than any specific historical significance of this tree. An oak being 250 years old is not that unusual in its own right. I agree that it is nice that the housing was built around it in order to incorporate it into the general ethos behind Welwyn Garden City.
I think the fact a protest was held to save it makes a stronger case for its local cultural value.
I appreciate that instinctively that it seems a good idea to incorporate something about the grass verge but actually that serves to muddy the waters.
You can try to appeal and lead with the information about the protest and local value then the preservation order to flesh out the story of the tree.
If declined I would see if it is possible to get an official information board installed about the tree and how it pulled people together locally. Perhaps approach a local councillor to see if the grass verge and tree could become an area to support biodiversity wild flowers maybe a bug hotel.
There is an interesting story here that needs to be brought out more.

[AMG7070]

What a coincidence to see this. I actually got this as a review.

Here is how I think about it.

A tree on itself is just not acceptable in any way. Even when the description tells an interesting story about it, that could just be made up to influence the reviewers to accept it, my memory remembers that there weren’t any links provided in the supplemental info to support (correct me if wrong). Therefore I rejected it for being not permanent/distinct.

Now seeing this with a little extra background and information defenitely changed my view to “maybe”. But in the end it is still a tree and it isn’t enough on itself.

As @elijustrying suggested try to get a information sign put by the tree to tell it’s story. Nominate the sign with the tree in the background. If I got it into review again I would defenitely accept with the information sign.

Therefore I also suggest not appealing this until you can have something installed by the tree that tells it’s story.

Good luck with your nomination,

Regards

[elijustrying]

I have gone down a bit of a rabbit hole.
So I thought I would share.

These are images comparing Victorian maps of the area with modern satelitte imagery. You can see how some features of the current building layout reflect the past. The field boundaries and the trees are all mapped out. So this tree is there. It is also interesting that the green footpath opposite is the old field boundary and the builders worked with that and the line of trees. I can also see that some of those trees have gone adding to the relevance of this tree as a surviving part of the areas natural history.
All interesting stuff
I would really try to work with the local conservation groups to get this little area recognised with some signage linking it to the woodland lots of potential

[Toaster1891]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all your comments.

@AMG7070 The link to the media article was included in the initial submission supporting information, but the tree preservation order document was not.

It’s pretty remarkable the tree is still there, given all the massive amount of construction involved in creating a town from scratch.

Coincidentally I noted that you said that trees by themselves should never be accepted. I was just wondering why? Tree is an item that can be selected from the categorisation when making a submission. It just seems odd to include it as an option on the submission page if they’re not eligible. I’d be interested to understand your thoughts.

What is the significance of the plaque or sign with regards the eligibility criteria?

Thank you @elijustrying for going down that rabbit hole! This matches with what I found from looking at old maps too.

I look forward to your further thoughts and comments, many thanks for taking the time to review and advise!

[AMG7070]

@Toaster1891

I noted that you said that trees by themselves should never be accepted. I was just wondering why?

Trees on themselves don’t meet the core criteria, because it isn’t:

A great place to socialise

A great place to explore

A great place to excercise

Trees are everywhere and on themselves not worthy of a wayspot. I know this particular tree has a story, but as I stated before, this isn’t enough to convince the reviewers.

@Toaster1891

What is the significance of the plaque or sign with regards the eligibility criteria?

A sign or a plaque can make this spot a great place to explore since it tells a unique story about a significant object (in this case the tree). And also backs up your nomination even more with the story.

@Toaster1891

The link to the media article was included in the initial submission supporting information, but the tree preservation order document was not.

Thank you for correcting me. Apologies for my faulty memory.

@Toaster1891

I look forward to your further thoughts and comments, many thanks for taking the time to review and advise!

We are happy to help in any way we can to make your nomination as great as possible so it hopefully goes through the system.

If you have anymore questions feel free to ask us.

Kind Regards,

[cyndiepooh]

I agree that a tree is usually just a tree, and very hard to prove it meets criteria. Here is garden to preserve a couple of significant trees that I had accepted on appeal if this helps you at all

[LetsRollGirl]

@Toaster1891

Tree is an item that can be selected from the categorisation when making a submission. It just seems odd to include it as an option on the submission page if they’re not eligible.

Just jumping in really quickly to clarify the above. The categories are completely independent of eligibility criteria. If you scroll through them you will see some that are explicitly against criteria. They add metadata to accepted wayspots.

Aside from that I see that other folks are diving in to help you decide if you want to retry or appeal on this submission . I liked learning the history of the tree

[Toaster1891]

It gets weirder still @LetsRollGirl

The current owner of the house applied for planning permission to demolish his house down to the ground and rebuild it on the same plot further away from the tree with extra underpinning in the foundations. It was finally finished in around November 2024.

[Toaster1891]

Cheers for the submission example @cyndiepooh

I’ll take a look and see if I can apply any of the same ideas to my appeal.

Many thanks!

[elijustrying]

If you think there is any evidence here you may include a link to this topic in your appeal.
Do the appeal see what happens.

[shritwod]

Under the older criteria, natural features such as trees were always ineligible. That guideline has changed now, but I suspect many reviewers will be either unsure or reject it based on the old criteria. Even now, it’s rare to see a natural feature submitted or accepted into the database.

I would say that this is going to be a very hard thing to sell, even with the background information. And yet it is interesting and tells a story that people probably wouldn’t know. It might just scrape through on the exploration criteria, but I wouldn’t guarantee it.

[elijustrying]

And this is why @Toaster1891 a sign/ information board helps a lot. It makes it easier for unusual situations like this to be verified as a place to explore.

[DTrain2002]

It sounds like this may also be on single family private residental property, SFPRP, which are ineligible locations.

Private Residences, Farmland & K-12

Single-family private residential properties (SFPRP), farms, and K-12 (schools or facilities primarily focused for persons under 18 years of age) are ineligible. This includes the outer facing facade, fence of these locations, and property boundaries. Objects in or upon apartment blocks, gated communities, or their shared spaces may be eligible assuming they otherwise meet criteria and are intended to be accessed by a community, even if not everyone. Communal spaces have the potential to be eli…

I would highly recommend that you review the Wayspot Criteria to get a better idea of what may or may not be eligible. You may also want to check iout the Criteria Clarification Collection to see examples of some of the most discussed POIs.

And yes, I agree that tress typically are not eligible since they’re all around the world, but if it had a sign noting the type of tree (commonly found on the many different species at gardens or arboretums) or the history of it, it may be eligible as a great place to explore.

[Toaster1891]

Thank you all so much for your help and advice.

It sounds like a sign is a good way to go, whether the local councillors would think it worthwhile is another thing. Probably not just by itself. I spy a protracted local history project on the horizon! There are a few other sites around the area which pre-date the town. Ironically, the explore category does seem most fitting, lol.

Thanks for your input @DTrain2002 it’s always worthwhile for me to refer back to the guidelines (brain cell wastage means my memory is not what it used to be) but I wouldn’t submit if it was growing on a private residence, this is a public tree accessible to all and maintained by the council.

[shritwod]

Incidentally, the suggestion by @elijustrying to use the old maps at the National Library of Scotland is a really good one. I’ve found all sorts of interesting things on the old OS maps that are not obvious on modern ones. It’s also a great place to find the names of things like woodlands which are not included on Google Maps - https://maps.nls.uk/

[elijustrying]

I use it for trail markers going across woods and fields as there are often field names which helps give a distinct title to the marker.

Got to love maps

[salixsorbus]

i scour google maps and all the (old) physical OS maps I have, which cover a good proportion of England and Wales at 1:25000, but only parts of Scotland at that scale.