I’ve recently been reading up on trail markers and trails. Something that really got me thinking was if a trail marker is representing the whole trail. Should there be 1 wayspot and the rest be duplicates or can we have every trail marker be a wayspot?
Also if 1 trail can have as many wayspots as there are trail markers, does that mean everything can have multiple wayspots? Or is this unique to trails. For example, can a park have as many wayspots as how many signs with the park’s name on it? What about a playground? Can a playground have as many wayspots as there are equipment? What about a fitness station with rows of fitness equipment? Can each one be a wayspot?
Welcome to the forum!
You will find staff clarifications on many of these issues in the Criteria Clarification Collection section.
In my opinion, every trail marker along a hiking trail is a good wayspot, because they encourage people moving along the trail.
For park signs, I do think separate entrances are good Wayspots, as they encourage visiting the park. Not every sign is good, for example ones on either side of the driveway should not both be Wayspots since they represent the same place. And park rules signs are just generic information that is not interesting in itself.
For playgrounds, usually it is the collection of equipment that is interesting. There could be unique features that would be eligible separately as explained in the clarification.
For fitness stations, if they are all grouped together, that would be one interesting destination. But if they are spread out along a path, then each could be a unique point of interest to visit.
If you have specific examples, we will be glad to give opinions on them.
Thanks for your response. As we know, park signs in themselves are not wayspots. They represent the park, just as a trail marker does. So in your view, a generic park rules sign is not allowed, while a generic trail marker is?
Also, you mentioned that a pair of signs on either side of a drive way would not be good as the represent the same place, but doesn’t a line trail markers also represent the same Point of Interest? E.g. the trail?
Is it a minimum distance or a proximity thing?
Please see the section I pointed you to.
Trail markers need to match in order to make following the trail easier/possible. Each one makes me feel - oh, I should head there!
There is nothing about a park rules sign that makes me want to visit it.
https://wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/new/criteria/guidelines
Wayspots within Large Areas
Wayspots within large areas like parks, plazas, and fields are eligible as well, even if the larger area itself is a Wayspot.
A trail is a large area that can support multiple Wayspots
https://wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/new/help/wayfarer-faq
Should I consider proximity to nearby Wayspots or Wayspot density when analyzing a nomination?
No. As long as the nomination is not a duplicate of an existing Wayspot, it is eligible to become a Wayspot. Each Niantic app has its own proximity rules to determine whether it will be included in the app.
I will be happy to answer more questions about specific examples. I am not good at blanket questions and answers.
Have you read the criteria clarification that was linked? It states that for hiking trails, each trail marker represents the route on the map and encourages people to keep exploring more of the trail. Not sure how that would apply to two park signs right next to each other
The link provided doesn’t state ‘each’ trail marker. It aslo does not say it a trail marker encourages further exploration. If it had, I won’t need to ask.
Then I am glad you asked, because it does read that way to me. Each marker with a “unique” function says that every one is eligible the way I read it. The first sentence talks about how the trail encourages the exploration.
I tried to put my spin on how it see it to explain how the markers are different from rules signs.
I am sorry, I dont have examples. Just overall curious.
Here is pretty much what I’m reading:
“Trail markers are tangible anchor points that define the route of the trail on the Wayfarer map.”
Which reads to me like the trail marker is merely representing the trail. The trail marker itself is not the Point of Interest.
“Wayspots within large areas like parks, plazas, and fields are eligible as well, even if the larger area itself is a Wayspot.”
This reads like a trail itself is the larger area that is a wayspot and you can have additional wayspots within the larger area that unique in it own right. Not a continuation the larger area or multiple wayspots representing the larger area.
Was really just curious more than anything else. Thank you for your help
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This means it defines that point in that trail, not the trail in its entirety.
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Thank you for reminding me why I see them this way. Lots of insight gained over lots of years.
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As @RoIi112 pointed out, the trail marker shows the way to go along the trail, i.e., the route. The route of the trail is not a single physical point. That is why I mentioned keeping people moving along the trail, as in, following the route.
It is really good to see how this stuff reads to newer folks! I hope this discussion helps.
IMO, you want to be able to see the next trail marker on the scanner to help you explore. These wayspots are best at decision points (i.e. junctions or where the trail turns) or repeaters / confirmation signs placed some distance part. Sometimes a lot of signs can be close together, I would recommend 200 metres between “repeaters” else you run into the possibility of them not being distinct.. some may disagree, but that the way I structure them. For example:
Try to give each trail marker a unique name, e.g. “XYZ Trail near ABC Farm”, “..west of Someplace”, “..between X and Y”. Sometimes that’s not obvious in the field, but you can edit submissions later if you find a better description - for example the names of woodlands might not be obvious from Google maps but might be marked on different maps. Numbering the trail markers can help if there are no distinguishing features but I’d recommend that as a last resort.
I do strongly recommend that you include some proof of the trail in the supporting text. OpenStreetMap can be great for that (assuming the data exists in OSM) and you can easily link to part of the trail. For example, in the photo above the trail can be seen at Relation: John Bunyan Trail (1772894) | OpenStreetMap - this is particularly helpful when the trail is under trees or otherwise invisible from space. You can include a link to any resource that shows the trail and proves its existence.
Supporting photos are also helpful - if there are any buildings or landmarks that can help confirm the location then get those in shot. If the marker is difficult to see in the supporting photo you can circle it and upload it as an existing picture, for example:
In this example the barn is visible on satellite view so it makes it much easier to confirm the location.
Sometimes a supporting photo might need some explaining, for example which compass direction the camera was pointing in and what features can be seen. For example “the supporting photo is looking east and you can see the village church in the background”.
I do have a pretty good approval rate with these things, but then I do also go only for named trails and take a photosphere where possible.
This is not Niantic policy, to be clear though.
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There is no set distance between markers. If the marker is needed to keep you on the correct route of the trail it can be submitted.
I use my judgement when I am walking the trail as to which ones I submit - I dont want to stop too often.
I think the new web submission option can be excellent for trails as it allows 5 supporting photos. So you can have a couple from different angles, perhaps one with the GPS coordinates showing, perhaps a couple walking up to the marker and I have also included screenshots of the official path or trail zoomed in at that point to confirm where it is going and to save the reviewer looking it up. You can tell a fuller story. Not so easy in wooded areas
The only issue is distance so if possible I do the submission before I leave the area.
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