Wayfarer has some Neurodivergent inclusivity issues

General Discussion
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I started writing a reply to a topic about an (overturned) abuse warning someone had received and the warning was removed by Niantic staff following the topic discussion. And as I was writing it I realised it would be better as a stand alone post. Partly to raise awareness, but also to prompt discussion and perhaps some consideration about how to tweak things in Wayfarer.

For reference I’m ADHD & Autistic, and I’ve been involved in a bunch of (real world) community organising and work on how to improve neuro-inclusivity. I don’t like to lead with my “credentials”, but I want to make it clear I’m not posting after just seeing an interesting TiKTok.

From a ND perspective Wayfarer has an increasing issue with the words and descriptions of things not matching the reality of them.

A very common trait of Autism, and other types of ND is where I read/hear the words that someone says and that’s what I understand. I don’t think “I wonder what they actually mean by using these descriptive words which isn’t the meaning of the descriptive words themselves?”

ND people are often very keen on rules and following rules, partly as a self-defence mechanism around regularly misunderstanding and being misunderstood. So where rules don’t make sense, or the actual rules are different to the way the rules are written down this causes us a lot of problems. It messes with our heads, can cause us to loose any respect for the rules, or the system enforcing them and send us into endless side quests trying to understand why the rules aren’t what they say they are.

Of course there are grey areas with something like Wayfarer criteria, that’s understandable. Of course it’s expected there will be things that different people will have different views on, that’s understandable. That’s not what I’m talking about. Neither of those concepts is necessarily an issue for ND people, we don’t need things to be “black and white” if they are explicitly framed as being grey.

Having grey areas is very different to there being a “hidden curriculum” where you are expected to read some words and infer a bunch of extra meaning which isn’t written down. Even worse is when the precise meaning of the words is different to what they are understood to represent in the specific context. I.E. wayfarer criteria where the actual words used do not convey the actual way they are applied.

All of this means, although the Wayfarer system is challenging for anyone to get to grips with, it is presenting specific barriers for ND people to engage with, and is asking disproportionately more of ND people. Essentially, for a ND person it’s like reading the criteria in a second language (which non-ND people are reasonably fluent in) and having to translate it yourself. It’s a lot more work, a lot more stressful and you will make mistakes.

Another problem is “justice sensitivity”, a common trait is a strong belief in fairness, coupled with a sensitivity to rejection and/or emotional dysregulation. Being seen to be punished unfairly will be much more strongly felt by some ND people than is typical. These traits coupled with the meaning one above means many ND people are really going to struggle in interactions where they are told unfairness is fair because in this context words mean something different to what they mean.

It’s my belief this isn’t deliberate or anything, it’s partly ignorance, and in a lot of cases the application of criteria has evolved through time, and so things which maybe weren’t the clearest at the start become less and less clear over time. And although fixing some of these issues involves a bit of work, that work will ultimately be beneficial to everyone.

Recommendations:

  • Review the Wayfarer guidance to make sure the words and phrases used correspond to the intending meaning, and that this meaning is conveyed in the simplest/clearest way.
  • The Wayfarer forum (reddit, discord, whatever) community should try and acknowledge if something is worded poorly in guidance/criteria, rather than always assert that people should understand the “hidden curriculum”
  • Any abuse related messages should be improved to be more specific. Not a bespoke message, but there needs to be a much greater range of stock messages which clearly convey the most common issues, and clearly explain the error.

There may be other things I’ve not thought of, interested to get other neurodivergent Wayfarers’ perspectives.

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I have never been diagnosed, or even suggested that I get tested, but you just described the way I think perfectly.

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You’re right about a lot of things. So many people here sprinkle in a little “hidden curriculum” whenever they try to explain the rules or criteria (whether they know it or not) and newcomers just take it all in as fact and then they will do the same to the next newcomer.

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Here is an example.

It is 2025, and people still don’t know how to use the “new” review flow. We no longer have the option to reject for “Does not meet criteria,” but a thumbs downs on all three core criteria questions does not appear to reject. We were told in the November 2023

I don’t know about y’all, but I would not look for tips on how to review correctly today in an AMA from 2023 if I were a new reviewer.

So how to reject something that just does not meet criteria? Well, ambassadors relayed an example they were given of a lamp post not being anything significant in its environment as something you could reject as not “Distinct,” and I passed this suggestion along when I was trying to help folks. However that is not how the review flow tool tip describes “Distinct”:

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Any instruction on how to use the “new” review flow has been left behind on the old version of the forum. And I can’t recall staff members giving useful instruction even there. Although Ambassadors did weigh in, and did get one section reworked.

I hated to use this rejection in a way that is not how it is defined in the tool tip. But I did, based on what I was told by people I trust. And I told others who might be struggling with it that this was how it was explained to me. Most people say, “Oh, that makes sense!” and carry on.

I find it difficult to believe that stuff like this doesn’t bother others, but starting to think maybe my brain just functions differently after reading the OP’s post.

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Sorry to say this but I think you’re unnecessarily dragging a comment made in good faith. This is unnecessary and we need to move on. Disagreements are part of any debate and there shouldn’t be any love lost because of that. Just my 2 cents for your consideration :folded_hands:

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oh i will edit if you feel that was inappropriate. seemed reasonable to me

(edit: done and ty - definitely don’t want to derail this. i meant that others apparently do not have the issues with lack of clarity that i do.)

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I applaud the opening of this discussion. I think we have a good deal of people that are ND in our community, and sometimes how others communicate can be frustrating to me as well (I’m in the process of getting tested myself).

I also have a loved one with autism, and they love to ask very detailed questions to others. Sometimes, a nice reply of yes or no will do, but other times they will just keep repeating the question before you actually answer back with that question as the answer. I know this is what they’re looking to hear back, but others don’t, and it can frustrate them. I never want them to get frustrated, so I always answer back with the full question as the answer, and may do so in a fun way, but they get their answer and move on.

I’m a person that likes to try and find my answers I’m looking for on my own, so I’ve always used the search feature in the forums to see if I can find my answer (and I’ve found many). There’s others I don’t find, and may ask about, but get some replies that aren’t all that helpful, snarky even at times. Some don’t realize that I don’t quite care for how they interact with me, and continue to interact with me in a way that gets me upset. I try my best to just move on, but sometimes it’s hard.

I also don’t like when I’m accused of spreading misinformation, as that’s something I have a hard stance on and don’t engage with. But, if I don’t word my replies correctly, with words like “possible,” “it may be,” “could,” etc, then I get told I’m trying to spread misinformation, and that doesn’t make me feel good.

ND comes in many different forms, so giving feedback I hope will help with how all of us, not just ambos and staff, interact with each other in the future.

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Love the conversation. I would hazard a guess many people find some of the processes and wording a jumble. I believe @kruddel points are for both the ND group but for all of us.

Some thoughts. Until Niantic tell us why they made the decisions, how they made them (what research said do what) - we can only assume processes. We can assume things such as those listed below (possible all) contribute to what we use today (processes and products):-

To be a sustainable organisation by being fiscally responsible. So what, how and when is prioritisation managed)
Greater reach
Drive engagement (more often, longer)
More successful nominations
Better quality nominations
Better reviewing standards
Faster processing
Maintain technical and data integrity
Meet legal/regulatation across multiple nations with the complexity of local/ regional/ national and international considerations
Appease loud groups who may not represent the many but make noise ((we here and people on reddit etc do not as a whole represent the millions playing - we often have our own agenda that is totally different to most people who just play)) So Niantic is often juggling all of these.
Easier ways to operationally manage the systems
To manage all of these things at scale often competing with each other.

With all the above. Maybe they had a plan to make easier but it was de-prioritised.. Maybe they actually tested some language changes and it failed. We don’t know

As for the unknown hidden agenda issue. Most people will not tell you their hidden agenda/perceptions - IE WHY they are really making a decision. And whatever language is used there will always be people who talk to the hidden meanings. It is sadly human nature (some of which is linked to what we want from the game - a true personal than wider community good). I hope your suggestions could reduce this. But I fear human behaviour.

And however Niantic manages to handle the points made - we can, based on past user experience, safely assume that unless every single nominator and reviewer is on board, goes through the same process, is updated / trained regularly etc - that Niantic will have a forever battle on its hands as it is a problem they have had since the games started.

It is never just about building a better improved system - it is about the knowledge management through the lifecycle of the product and services offered that bring about a better experience for all.

I guess I am saying I agree. Fix up the language - but also fix up the knowledge management process so it is supported better. I could have just said that and saved you all time reading my waffle :slight_smile:

Thanks to everyone sharing. Love what you brought up @kruddel

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Well perhaps those can be added here . Nd to make TLDR version and add haha

I just realize ambo edit first realized wish

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This is a larger issue than just suggesting a change. Those who are neurodivergent think differently than those who are neurotypical. For example, I don’t always get memes these days, so if someone replies to be with one, I may ask for further clarification.

For those that may be unfamiliar with neurodiversity, more info can be found here:

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Well i am not sure whether staff read here or no. But at some point, scopely probably ask staff whats about future improvement. I am guessing compiling all suggestion into one place will help staff at that point.

I have no idea about ND, so i can only suggest to make tldr version and put it together with other suggestion

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Staff monitor the forums, so they’ll see this.

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I didn’t find this response to be helpful:

  1. I tried to use help chat to remove a non-existing Wayspot that is inaccessible, which would be a criteria issue, as locatons must exist.
  2. The links for removal provided are for each game, not Wayfarer in general, and I want the Wayspot removed from all games.
  3. It made me feel down, as if I didn’t know what I was doing. Yes, I know what the Wayspot Appeals thread is for, but I was having no luck with help chat, and so I had to resort to a different method, which others have also used in the past.

Not really helpful when you typically report one way, never usually have any issues, but guess there’s issues now that haven’t been fully conveyed to the community yet.

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You used the ‘report abuse’ avenue which is reserved for reporting abuse. There is a separate link to request removal. The team that reviews abuse reports is overwhelmed with reports and they cannot take more on their plate.

That’s a decision for the team to make when they review the report.

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You need to make these things clear. And this answer also makes me feel down, like I’m not good enough. You don’t need to be so formal and so matter-of-fact. This can frustrate ND people.

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You think you have it bad in English, try in another language. Not only will terms be defined differently depending on the page, you’ll get different features or ideas use the same word to represent them, if you are lucky they might be somewhat appropriate. For example, wanna know if a nomination is on hold or in the queue? Both are “En attente” in French, good luck figuring out what’s what.

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That’s problematic, though. You need to reach a waypoint to use the ingame system to report it as… inaccessible. Like, what? Do you want me to dive in the water to use the normal report feature to tell you that this power spot is 100m off into water? Seems to me that the interact radius to propose a location change should be larger than for, battling in it.

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I would argue that the two additional types of “en attente”, “vote en attente” and “appel en attente”, do nothing to help the situation. :smiling_face_with_tear: Sorry, favorite pet peeve.

And regarding your second point, it seems quite clear from the conversation above Aaron suggested using a specific online removal form instead of diving for wayspots, as he used the word “link” twice. I am also very much in favor of more streamlined reporting methods, but I don’t really see where in-game reporting was suggested for this specific situation.

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This is a core additional benefit. I’ve done work with local shopping area and with my previous (large) workplace around neuro-inclusivity and it benefits lots of people.

There’s a cliché “a rising tide lifts all ships” (I don’t know if there is a French version!) and it’s somewhat true here - people who don’t have English as a 1st language, older people who suffer with poor memory, or even dementia, sometimes even just people who are new to an area/thing - making something so it’s more accessible to neurodivergent people can also make it something that was previously a bit difficult for lots of other people into something easy for them.

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This is an absolutely brilliant post and really reflects how I feel too. I have researched autism a lot over the last few years after taking an online test at work with my colleagues and getting the higest score in the company (I do love to score well on a test!! :wink:) A formal diagnosis is not accessible in my county for adults but I am comfortable nowadays to call myself autistic.

I am part of my company’s neurodivergent advocacy group and we are seeking to make recommendations to ensure the company works in an inclusive way, as they recognise that accommodations for neurodivergent people generally improve things for everyone :blush:

I struggle with the wayfarer process for reasons mentioned above, particularly @cyndiepooh talking about there being no “does not meet criteria” option on the review flow. As mentioned in the first post in this topic, I like clear rules and guidelines and I like to do my best to follow best practice. I also hate to do things that don’t seem accurate or make no sense, but reviewing where there’s no “does not meet criteria” button forces me to do this and I really don’t like it.

Wayfarer, and the games it relates to definitely attract neurodivergent people, and I think many of us like to research topics we are passionate about quite deeply and become somewhat of an expert in these areas. Wayfarer could easily be a special interest for some autistic players. That can mean we become REALLY good at this!! So help us to enjoy it better, please!!

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