Invalid Wayspot - The Getty Center (Episode 3)

[Itsutsume]

• Wayspot Title: The Getty Center
• Location (lat/lon): Ingress Intel Map / 34.077602,-118.474371
• City: Los Angeles, CA
• Country: USA
• Screenshot of the Rejection Email (do not include your personal information):

• Additional Information (if any)

I quick recap of previous episodes:

In Episode 1 I reported this wayspot as invalid because its POI was a poster for an event that ran from September 2017 to January 2018 (and also because the wayspot was not where the poster used to be). The appeal failed. Maybe someone thought that if event is over, it doesn’t mean the poster is gone, too. “Oh well,” thought I, “let me rename this wayspot to what it should have been named based on the photo, put a description that corresponds to the photo, and try to remove it or at least move it to where its long-gone POI used to be”. Niantic reviewed my edits and said “Seems OK, approved”. Why do I think it was Niantic? The edits in Nomination page had Niantic’s logo on them, and the email I got said this - “Congratulations, our team has decided to accept your Wayspot edit”

In Episode 2 I explained everything I did since Episode 1, provided more details and asked for the wayspot to be removed or at least moved. After telling me that what I did - renamed the wayspot and tried to remove it - was really bad, Niantic removed the event photo and put a different photo, renamed the wayspot back to The Getty, but left my description:

So now for Episode 3…

If you look at satellite views from different angles…:

• Facing North:

• Facing West:

• Facing South:

• Facing East:

…you will see that the only building that matches the building on the photo is NOT the one where the wayspot currently is:

…but rather it’s this one…:

This building is the Research Institute of the Getty Center:

You can check the Getty Center map here.

The Research Institute already is a wayspot:

It’s the same building - the photo was taken from a different spot.

(Note: This Research Center wayspot used to be called “Paul Getty Center, set 2009”, but based on its only photo - the photo of the research institute - I renamed it. It should have been Institute, but when I asked one of the employees about what this building was, I was told it’s research center, not research institute, so I renamed it to research center. My bad, didn’t think I should have double-checked the employee. Gonna fix it at some point. But back to the wayspot in question…)

All this shows that with Niantic’s new photo this wayspot is now a duplicate of another wayspot.

I don’t know the history of this wayspot, but there are plenty of other great wayspots at the Getty. Please don’t hold on to this wayspot, just remove it.

[Itsutsume]

Also, “The Getty Center” refers to the whole campus, not just one building. You can read more here - Getty Center - Wikipedia. That article has a satellite photo with explanation:

[NianticLC]

Thanks for the appeal, @Itsutsume. We took another look at the Wayspot in question and decided that it does not meet our criteria for removal at this time.

[Itsutsume]

In such case I am gonna rename it to Research institute and move it to where Research Institute is

[Itsutsume]

Looks like my edit went thru, and now this wayspot has the name that corresponds to the photo:

Now it’s time for location edit over 10 m

[NianticAaron]

Trying to repurpose Wayspots to get them removed is a violation of our policies. Please note that any further attempts to manipulate the gameboard will lead to sanctions on your Wayfarer and Ingress/ Pokémon GO accounts.

I have reverted the title change and moved the Wayspot to its previous location. Thanks,

[Itsutsume]

This wayspot was messed up from the beginning, and then Niantic messed it up even more. I didn’t repurpose anything. I just wanted to make the title, the description and the location match to whatever photo is there.

The photo of this wayspot currently shows the Research Institute of the Getty Center, as I explained in this thread. Therefore it should be named as such and placed at where the Research Institute is:

Right now it’s located at the back of the Entrance Hall, which is totally wrong. If you don’t want to move it, maybe put a photo of the back of the Entrance Hall and rename it to “The Back of the Entrance Hall” so that everything matches?

[eneeoh]

It seems like it is well past the time when a complete flowchart and instructions are required.

Which elements of an incorrect Wayspot will you desire for your explorers to update, vs. which ones constitute ‘repurposing’ the Wayspot?

What would you have the OP do in this instance where the photo, title, and pin placement did not agree with each other, and the photo showed a no-longer-extant sign for a temporary event that was long gone?

Why didn’t you guide the OP toward the action you desired or advise him to desist from the outset?

If you want users to help to keep your map up-to-date, the onus is on you to provide a straightforward methodology that we can follow without stumbling into new warnings about ‘abuse’.

If you prefer to hold onto out-dated or incorrect map info, please say so out front.

[Itsutsume]

Yes, @NianticAaron, it would be great to know what “repurposing” is. There’s yet another generic “The Getty” wayspot, located at one building while having a photo of another building:

With all these warnings and no explanations of what was done wrong, some people might get discouraged from making edits to keep wayspots accurate and up-to-date, you know.

[Itsutsume]

@NianticAaron

Trying to repurpose Wayspots to get them removed is a violation of our policies

And btw, where did I say I want it removed after I got it renamed? I said I want it moved to a proper location, not removed:

@Itsutsume

In such case I am gonna rename it to Research institute and move it to where Research Institute is

@Itsutsume

Looks like my edit went thru, and now this wayspot has the name that corresponds to the photo:

Now it’s time for location edit over 10 m

If someone in Niantic decided to remove it, how is it my bad?

[elijustrying]

I don’t think at this point that Niantic staff will comment further, and if they do it will not be a priority as there are other queries in this category waiting for a response and this particular wayspot has already had a lot of attention.
I appreciate that for you aspects of this wayspot are unsatisfactory. The response from Niantic is different and as a whole it disagrees with you.
I know that you have said in the past you put no credence on what fellow wayfinders say, only what Niantic says.
Niantic have given you their response, I would advise you to take on board all that they have said and try to accept it. Sometimes we have to accept that the answer we want is not the answer we get.
I would also urge you to take on board the wider point that was made. I’m unclear because you are so focussed on this particular outcome if you have fully taken on board what was said about your approach to achieving the outcome you were aiming for.
You shouldn’t be going through a staged process of making edits to the photo, the text and the location. This has been stated by the Wayfarer Team as wrong. Please take this onboard as it wouldn’t be good if someone who wants to improve the database gets into trouble and gets sanctions because they went about achieving their end goal in a way the Wayfarer Team have decided is inappropriate.

[frealafgb]

Please can we get a published guide about making edits?

I would like to know examples of what is editing, tidying up, making things more accurate, and what is repurposing

At the moment, when editing, there’s always fear of a ban in the back of my mind, in case you guys decide I repurposed instead of edited.

I would like things to be clearer so that people with good intentions about improving accuracy don’t get warned and banned without knowing why, and what to avoid in future.

[Itsutsume]

You are accusing me of things I didn’t do and making statements that show you have absolutely no idea what is going on. It’s almost like you are trying to shut me up. But let me be nice and constructive and give you a tl;dr version.

1. This wayspot had a photo - the only photo - of a poster about an event that ran for a few months in 2014. Let’s forget that this POI was a temporary object. It’s gone now. When I asked for the wayspot to be removed, Niantic said no. So what I did was make edits to have title and description match the photo, and then I tried to move it to where the poster used to be.
2. Title and description edits went thru, but when I did location edit, Niantic said I did a bad, bad thing, renamed the wayspot back (leaving my new description - it looked very funny with the old title and the new photo, btw), removed the photo of a long-gone poster, and put a photo of a building that still doesn’t match the title. And that building is actually a POI for another wayspot.
3. When I pointed out this wayspot is now a duplicate, Niantic didn’t want to remove it yet again. Fine, I said, I’ll again make edits to match the photo Niantic put. Title and description went thru, but when I did location edit (over 10m), Niantic again said I did a bad, bad thing (repurposing, whatever it means) in order to remove the wayspot.

So yes, they gave their response - about this wayspot. They can keep it. But the problems are these:

1. I didn’t make edits to get this wayspot removed. I made them so that its title, description and location correspond to its photo. So when they accuse me of making edits in order to get this wayspot removed, their accusations are baseless, as I have shown.
2. Two other players besides me - @eneeoh and @frealafgb - would like to know what repurposing means. And I am sure there are others.
3. Me and @eneeoh also would like to know if Niantic wants us, the players, to keep things accurate and up-to-date.

All this is not related to the wayspot in question. Now, when and if Niantic will reply to us - we don’t know. But we can wait and discuss these things while we wait, can’t we?

[frealafgb]

You probably know that I think you’re too picky a lot of times, but on this one I agree with you. You only tried to make something that was out of date more accurate, and Niantic made it worse by picking a very odd combination of things to display, and then warned you that youll get a ban if you keep trying to make it accurate.

I think other players could easily do the same thing in this kind of situation so I am concerned that we need some proper guidance here

I’ve had 2 situations like this which I have also tried to fix. I would like to understand if I also did something wrong to try to update 9/10 year old waypoints to match what is there today, and fix messes of mismatched images/titles/descriptions?! Maybe I need to leave it incorrect to avoid a ban.

I dont want to do the wrong thing. But I like adding nice new images and I also love the opportunity to make a new wayspot by fixing something that is incorrect. So I want to know if Im doing the right thing or the wrong thing by updating things that have gotten into a mess

[elijustrying]

@Itsutsume
I’m simply trying to ensure you understand what has been said to you, and manage your expectations around a dialogue.

@NianticAaron

Trying to repurpose Wayspots to get them removed is a violation of our policies. Please note that any further attempts to manipulate the gameboard will lead to sanctions on your Wayfarer and Ingress/ Pokémon GO accounts.

I have reverted the title change and moved the Wayspot to its previous location. Thanks,

If you understand that is good, I wasn’t sure you had.

I do think the topic of repurposing needs to be talked about.

SUGGESTION - A streamlined way to replace POI

As many of us know, Niantic has decided that trying to update a POI through editing the information is now considered abuse, and many users are being flagged for well intentioned edits. Sometimes it is a piece of art that is replaced, or a business that closes and reopens as something new, and oftentimes these new things are still eligible in their own right. Niantic wants us to instead report the old POI for deletion and resubmit the new one, to clear old data and to try and curb abuse where …

This topic was created a few weeks ago about this subject of repurposing. It would be helpful if the non-case specific points were made in that topic so it came to the surface again and perhaps more people could contribute.
I think (as you will read in that topic) that it is an important subject.

[Itsutsume]

You understand that I wasn’t trying to get the wayspot removed and that I have no clue what repurposing means, and that this is what me and others are now discussing here, right?

[Itsutsume]

It’s been almost a week since you threatened me with sanctions for something I wasn’t trying to do. Will I get a definition of repurposing and an explanation on why you said I was trying to remove this wayspot when I was trying to move it after I gave up on removing it?

[Itsutsume]

btw, you should probably change the description of this wayspot if you don’t want Research Institute title and location.

Maybe a different photo, too, so that it doesn’t have a photo of the Research Institute. Not sure what you are going to put, though - nothing near this wayspot has anything that says just “The Getty Center”. There might have been a welcome sign at one or both tram stations or maybe there was something by the parking lot that says just “The Getty Center”, but most of the things there would be more accurately named “Such and such thing at the Getty Center” instead of just “The Getty Center”, cause as I mentioned in this thread, the Getty Center is a big campus with multiple buildings, each serving a different purpose.

Unless, of course, it’s OK to name everything inside a large area with a generic name of this area and nothing else. If it’s OK to name a specific building on the Getty Center campus just “The Getty Center” instead of “J. Paul Getty Research Institute”, because that’s what it is, can we name playgrounds, exercise equipment and athletic fields inside a park just “Such and such park” instead of “Such and such thing in such and such park”? Can we name everything in Disneyland just “Disneyland”? How about naming every plaque in a university dedicated to different people and things just “University” only because they are inside a university?

[Itsutsume]

[Leedle95]

From your posts above:

Tried to remove…

@Itsutsume

In Episode 2 I explained everything I did since Episode 1, provided more details and asked for the wayspot to be removed or at least moved. After telling me that what I did - renamed the wayspot and tried to remove it - was really bad,

Tried to repurpose:

@Itsutsume

In such case I am gonna rename it to Research institute and move it to where Research Institute is

Seems pretty clear.