Hello! I’m new at submitting so I’m trying to figure out what the issue is with my suggested pokestop.
I’ve seen similar stops in other neighborhoods so I’m not sure what the difference is between mine and previously accepted ones.
We have no pokestops or gyms for miles from my neighborhood. There are also no sidewalks here which is very common for rural georgia.
This isn’t private property, it’s the center of a low traffic cul de sac. This area was once part of a plantation and farm land and these ruins are from that era of history. Is there no way this can qualify? Thanks for your help.
Here’s what I wrote for the title and desc:
Tabby Cabin Ruins
This corner is all that is left of a historical plantation era cabin. Rice growing was once a main industry of this community.
I’ve submitted it twice and both times their ML / AI systems have rejected it. "This submission was declined by Niantic’s automated process for not adhering to Wayfarer criteria "
The “automated process” is a machine learning ai model that learns from accepts and rejects. I am certain that it is very rare for it to come across a chunk of stone that is an eligible nomination.
If there is any kind of plaque about this ruin, you may be able to use a photo of that to submit this. If not, I can’t think of any way to take the photo to make it clear that this is something that should be considered.
Your best option may be to appeal the rejection. You get 2 appeals, each on a 20 day counter before you can use them again. I have no idea how they will feel about this.
Did you have any proof in your supporting section that this is a preserved historical site, or is it just crumbling debris? Is the location SFPRP (Single Family Private Residential Property) or at a school?
Sadly there is no historical marker at this particular bit of ruin. If that’s the only thing that’d make a difference I suppose there won’t be any pokestops near by for us. Also it’s not in anyone’s yard. It’s in a culdesac there for public property of the neighborhood. Thanks so much for your help Cyndie
I didn’t say that was the only thing, just that it would be easier! There are folks on here who love to submit ruins who may have some other suggestions.
From my point of view this is as unsafe as traffic circle/roundabout are, and if there is no safe walk to it, the cultural value of it doesn’t matter - safety first and in this case without knowing more, I would have denied it.
If the Cul-de-sac has a zebra crossing like this picture or other safe ways to access it, then safety is ok - and I could also accept it (if other proof could be in place for it’s cultural significance)
That’s a fairly niche approach to defining what is safe for pedestrian access. Most people (almost all) would accept that low-traffic roads in quiet neighbourhoods are safe.
We’re even talking here about a POI surrounded by grass, not on the road.
if the op decides to share the location, we can look at the map and see if there seem to be any issues with the location. i have never seen a cul-de-sac in a neighborhood in the southern US where I also live that did not have safe pedestrian access.
My family’s origins are in coastal Georgia, so even though I don’t know where this ruin is specifically, I am quite familiar with what you’re nominating.
You’ve got 3 potential issues.
You can’t get the submission past ML.
Even if we can get you past ML, you still need a compelling reason for community reviewers to accept this.
You may need to appeal this, so you need a compelling reason for Niantic reviewers to accept this.
I’m going to skip the ML problem for now and focus on issues 2 and 3. You need specifics for what house used to be here. And if you don’t have those specifics, then you need to explain the style of building this represents and the materials used. I would start by reading up on tabby to understand why tabby was used so extensively and for how long.
DO NOT copy any of the sentences you find in these reference materials. But use them to explain why this ruin is an interesting example of historic methods of construction.
However, this is something I need to caution you about. Anything that glorifies the old plantation life without educating about the horrors of the institution that supported it should not be added to the Niantic map. It’s a fine line to walk to remind people of our history so that we don’t repeat it while also treating those who suffered so many atrocities with dignity.
I will let others talk about how to frame the photo so that ML will understand it is a ruin in case you want to resubmit it.
I would like to see more of the surrounding area so I can speak to the PRP and pedestrian access issue. Oh! You gave me the location.
Based on the rural nature of this location, I am fine with this having safe pedestrian access. This grassy area does kinda operate like a round-about. But all the way down at the end of this road, there is no expectation of sidewalks or crosswalks (in my expert opinion as someone who has family who lives off roads like these). And this does not look like PRP to me, either. You found a unicorn here!
I definitely wouldn’t glorify old dixie but the majority of pokestops in my area are from the Plantation era, heck half of them even say ‘Slave’ . There was a lot of civil war action in this area, especially towards Darien which is just up the road a few miles from this location. I may try to go the tabby explanation route as it is a very big part of this community. Thanks for the suggestion. I did find a bit more info about the potential names of this location, but they are from local amateur historians rather than official sources.
Have you gone to the local library to ask them or see if they know someone with expertise? Someone in the area has access to what was on that land at one point.
Would it be better to try an appeal, listing any potential website facts or if I get lucky, official historical reference ex: a historical society or government site? Not sure ‘local amateur historian’ quote will be enough evidence?
Hmm. I think I might resubmit and put good information about tabby in the description. In the supplemental, you could talk about how ruins in general are great places to explore. And then if ML rejects it again, then that submission is better set up for an appeal, IMO.
I am not sure what to recommend for a new photo, but I do think you should use a different main photo than the one already rejected. I think a photo taken from the right hand side of the ruin in your supporting photo facing back towards the main chunk might capture more of the shape that this is something for the ML model. Try taking several photos and see which one you think really captures what this is for the camera. You can use the “existing photo” option when you make the submission.
[Edit: since the piece shows on street view, you might want to use the supporting photo to highlight the tabby if you are going to lean in on that in the description. Normally you would want a wider view like you did originally, but this might be the rare exception where you might want a closer shot. I think the ML model would most likely reject a zoomed in shot on the tabby material if you tried that for the main photo.]
Yeah I think that is what I’m gunna do. Go with the new submission and more tabby info and specific historical info I’ve found and a diff pov for the main photo. Thanks for your help Sea Princess and everyone. It’s been greatly appreciated!
Hey everyone! It’s been raining so there hasn’t been a good time to get a new photo but in the meantime I’ve come up with some new text for a new submission.
Please let me know if you think there’s anything I should change.
Pokestop Title : Carteret Point Tabby Cabin Ruins
Description: These 1800s era tabby ruins, made from local oyster shell and mortar, are all that is left of a cabin built by pioneer and trader Carteret. It is an often overlooked historical location of this marsh side community.
Supplimental info :
These tabby wall ruins are all that is left of a cabin built in the 1800s by pioneer trader Carteret. His main trading post was near the historic Altamaha River. He exchanged goods for skins and other items with the local Native Americans. There is a road named after him still in use today.
Tabby is a method of mixing local oyster shell, lime and mortar to create a concrete like building material that is long lasting and sturdy. It was brought to the New World in the late 1500s by the Spanish explorers. Many Colonial era buildings and forts were constructed in this method. One local example is Fort Fredrica on the near by St. Simons Island. It is even still used today as a decorative finish on the outside of residential houses.
