Request for a Second Look: Location Warning for Statue

[ZebraRose]

Hi everyone. I’m looking for help with a warning I received on my account. I’ve been a contributor in Brigham City and the Box Elder area since 2014 (Ingress yay!) and have always worked to keep the map accurate.

I recently nominated a statue at St. Michael’s church that was flagged for location abuse. Gareth from support has already looked at this, but I’m hoping for a second opinion from the community team regarding the context. In my attached screenshots, the pink X shows the statue and the blue X shows where my pin landed. This offset was a genuine mistake and not a deliberate attempt to manipulate S2 cells or the gameboard (I just recently even learned about these cells from Reddit, a lot of my submissions were years ago, until I recently got back into it).

This wasn’t intentional, but if I’m looking at the map correctly, the blue X is actually on the edge of the circular bench area built specifically for the statue. Someone standing there is effectively at the landmark. My GPS likely drifted slightly during the submission process, or when I was zooming in I fat fingered it, but the pin is still within the immediate seating area of the feature, I didn’t realize it would be categorized as abuse. I don’t care that this won’t be accepted, I’m just scared of another accident and getting a 30 day ban as I’ve really been enjoying getting out and looking for stops again lately, and I promise I will triple check preciseness in the future. I can provide a 360 degree video of the area of that would help the strike be removed, I just get anxious over a game I’ve played so long.

After 12 years of contributions, having an “abuse” strike for a minor positioning error feels very heavy-handed. I’m asking if the community can look again at my long-term history and this specific nomination. I want to keep mapping local landmarks correctly, and I would so greatly appreciate having this strike removed from my record. I also love to travel and I’ve heard those could be potentially flagged with the new system as well which also worries me! I am quite proud of my 20+ Disney World accepted contributions, and my favorite place in Hawaii was also my submission, it’s so fun to help grow the map.
Thanks for your consideration,
Heather - Pokemon: ZebraRose Ingress: Gr8heather

• Wayspot Title: The Pondering Mary at St. Michael’s
• Location (lat/lon): (41.4988708, -112.0122175)
• City: Brigham City
• Country: Box Elder

Screenshot of the Rejection Email (do not include your personal information):

• Additional Information (if any):

[salixsorbus]

Welcome to the forums

There is an existing wayspot for the garden plaque at the exact location you have marked with a blue cross: Alwin L Wittier Memorial Garden (41.498950,-112.012318). The pink cross is close enough to this and everything else in that cell that it would neither be a pokestop nor a powerspot.

Can you please post a screenshot of the coordinates from the submission receipt email - it will be below the two images.

[elijustrying]

Hello and welcome @ZebraRose

It’s not obvious where the best place is to post on the forum.
I am going to move this to the general discussion area as that is more appropriate for support.

[NianticOren]

Hi @ZebraRose , welcome to the Wayfarer Community forum. I have sent the relevant details. Please check my DM.

Regards,

[ZebraRose]

@salixsorbus

Alwin L Wittier Memorial Garden

Yeah, I submitted that one too, in 2014. lol. In combination with my husband and brother, we pretty much made our whole town in the Ingress days and earlier Pokemon go days. I’ve got my answer twice now and they won’t take away my strike, which is pretty disheartening, but I guess it is what it is. I took a break from the game for the day, besides getting my route in because I need to do my seven day streak. I’ll probably take a break from submissions for a while. I feel like I can’t trust my ADHD butt to not do this again. I think what happened was that I scrolled in on the map to make sure that I got it in the right place and then my finger jumped it to a different place without me noticing. It seems like the pin ended up near the front of the church instead of in the back where is supposed to be. I mapped it out, and they were right it’s not just a few feet off like I thought it’s precisely 33 m from where it is supposed to be. I withdrew my last current submission in queue as well, because I can’t trust myself. I know that if I got a 30 day ban, I would just rage quit and that would hurt my feelings after 12 years of playing and contributing to the game.

[grid]

[ZebraRose]

Oops, I didn’t mean to include that AI screenshot. I was just trying to find a walking route app for my daughter earlier, and realized that it would also be a good tool to map out how far away the Pokémon pin was from where it was supposed to be. That is a screenshot was for my husband to help her route her walk. I was incorrect in my blue and pink x-es, it was actually a little ahead/beside the church rather than in the back where it was supposed to be.

[ZebraRose]

Oh yeah, and sorry I didn’t realize I didn’t actually answer your question and provide the screenshot with the coordinates. It’s irrelevant now but here they are. The team was right and it was further than I thought. Trying not to take it personally, but still am unfortunately. It’s just who I am as a person. the actual coordinates of the statue are (41.4988625, -112.0122212)

I didn’t care about the rejection of the pokestop, I only care about the strike

Unfortunately, I’ve been going through it in my personal life , and I was enjoying getting back into this.

[SlimboyFat71]

Hello and Welcome,

Sorry you find us due to the circumstances.

First the bit that sounds harsh. Rules are Rules. 30m is not a slight error therefore a 1 day warning seems reasonable to me.

If all information as been disclosed IMO it doesn’t seem malicious, both your pinned location and the correct location are both in the same occupied cell and therefor would not have been used as a stop or gym.

Just a couple of tips on Location accuracy.

• Do not rely on GPS. It’s accurate but will only get you to where you are stood.
• Once the pin is on the map, move the pin to the correct location.
• Once in Wayfarer, check again. Withdraw nomination if mis-located.
• If your nomination is within 10km of home use Wayfarer Submit option.

I can understand if you decide to take a break from nominating, maybe a few days or a week and you may feel different.

Remember the strike will be removed completely in 1 year if you have no other digressions.

Good luck.

[elijustrying]

Hi,
I removed the unintended photo information.

Personally I find the new web submission route easier to use for locating the pin - much less fiddly than on a small screen. You can take your time and it also displays the actual co ordinates. You can save as a draft and triple check before submitting.
So consider that if you decide to return.

[ZebraRose]

The problem with the new ladder system is that a “one-day warning” isn’t just a one day warning, it’s an entire year mark on your account where one more mistake gets you banned for a full month. Missing a Community Day or a major event because you tried to submit a stop isn’t worth it. That strike stays there for an entire year, which is insane.

A 30-day ban for trying to improve the map will make any long-time player rage quit. I know you didn’t personally build this system, but looking at the mechanics makes it clear why people are discouraged. I’ve spent the last two days looking through Reddit and this forum, and plenty of people are walking away from Wayfarer because they don’t want to risk a decade-old account.

Niantic/wayfarer/Scopely/ whoever is in charge now, may have to have to change this if they want experienced players to keep contributing. They might have already lost that group. I’m sure a tiny fraction of people don’t mind the rigidity, but most players aren’t going to risk their play time or a permanent ban over a submission.

The system needs a buffer. Give people two or three warnings before dropping a month-long ban. As it stands, one strike and then next mistake (which you may have no idea you’re making) and you’re out. And that strike lasts a year. It makes submitting stops feel like a liability. If someone is obviously trying to put 20 fake stops in their backyard, ban them. But punishing legitimate players for minor errors just kills the game. Again, not speaking to you personally, but if anyone reads this who is a game maker, it might give them my perspective.

[SlimboyFat71]

@ZebraRose

that a “one-day warning” isn’t just a one day warning,

That’s exactly what it is.

We have to start with the fact that the rules where broken.

What do you think would be better, you just get a kind email suggesting “if you could be ever so kind not to do it again” for the first 12 offences?

@ZebraRose

Missing a Community Day or a major event because you tried to submit a stop isn’t worth it.

That has to be your decision. Play by the rules. Drop Wayfarer.

@ZebraRose

That strike stays there for an entire year, which is insane.

I am not sure what you would want.

“You broke the following rule, please don’t do it again, at least not in the next 30 minutes”.

@ZebraRose

A 30-day ban for trying to improve the map will make any long-time player rage quit.

You are talking about a possible scenario that will only happen if you ignore the warning.

If a player is going to ignore the rules constantly then maybe Wayfarer / Niantic would prefer them to “Rage Quit”.

@ZebraRose

I’ve spent the last two days looking through Reddit

This has been found to be the place that players go to rant because Niantic will not un-ban them after the 4th offence (and the did ask nicely).

They will then leave out the facts making out “I did nothing wrong”.

@ZebraRose

plenty of people are walking away from Wayfarer because they don’t want to risk a decade-old account.

There is no risk when you play by the rules.

@ZebraRose

Niantic/wayfarer/Scopely/ whoever is in charge now, may have to have to change this if they want experienced players to keep contributing.

The vast majority of experienced player that nominate regularly do not get warnings / suspensions.

@ZebraRose

The system needs a buffer. Give people two or three warnings before dropping a month-long ban.

Those sort of people would just complain as it’s isn’t fair that they only got three warnings, it should be 5 or 6.

@ZebraRose

As it stands, one strike and then next mistake

So 2 strikes?

@ZebraRose

which you may have no idea you’re making

Which is why you only got a warning this time so you take more care if you decide to continue nominating.

@ZebraRose

If someone is obviously trying to put 20 fake stops in their backyard, ban them.

Agreed.

@ZebraRose

But punishing legitimate players for minor errors just kills the game.

As stated in my earlier post, 30m is not a “minor error”.

I would love to see the statistics…

• % of PoGo players that partake in Wayfarer.
• % of Wayfarers that are given each level of the Abuse Ladder.

I am sure the numbers will not show that its killing the game

@ZebraRose

but if anyone reads this who is a game maker

I am sure they will have already looked at the numbers and if it was causing a problem they would have already made changes.

As I said above, I don’t think that what you did was malicious and that is why I believe it was correct to get “just” a warning. If it was obvious malicious as you also said then I would be OK if the 1st Offence was a ban.

The choices are up to you…

• Continue Wayfarer the same as before without learning and risk a ban.
• Continue Wayfarer taking more care and there should be no problems.
• Drop Wayfarer and just stick to playing the game.
• Rage quit, don’t play at all, Go to Reddit and complain how unfair it is…

[ZebraRose]

Cool story, but it was a minor error.

[SlimboyFat71]

@ZebraRose

but it was a minor error.

That’s 1 opinion.

5m because that was where you took the 2nd photo and that’s where you stood when uploading I could class as a “Minor Error”. It’s still wrong.

30m! and then didn’t notice on the map is not a “Minor Error”.

I can see that we are not going to agree on this so I will step back.

I would love to hear which parts of my post you believe was “story” but I will not reply unless the topic moves on on you ask for other advice.

I do hope you stick around in whatever capacity you decide.

Good Luck.

[pokemaster4u2]

I actually agree with you, the abuse ladder is very steep. I also see a lot of people on the Reddit main Pokemon sub, who are afraid to submit or even review.

I don’t think that just giving warnings would be the solution. But a shorter ban would also deliver a message.

Most people on this forum know the rules really well, but the average Pokemon player probably does not know how strict the rules are.

And let’s be honest there are so many “wrong” pokestops in the game, that a lot of people will probably think it is not a big deal. Even Niantic has added a lot of rubbish wayspots, by importing an external database.

To be clear, I don’t like it when people create fake wayspots, and I fully endorse a serious penalty for fake wayspots. But I would prefer a less steep abuse ladder for other incorrect nominations.