I tried last night to get this point across but did not succeed. Something is not eligible just because it is a garden. Something is eligible because it is a great place to exercise, explore, or be social. “Gardens” (specifically “community gardens” which this is not) are listed as an example of something that may be eligible here:
https://wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/new/criteria/eligibility
But the important point is that they have to meet one of the eligibility requirements here:
https://wayfarer.nianticlabs.com/new/criteria/acceptance
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Its a great placet to explore because its a garden, it harbors different plants esp for pollinators. the fact its a RAIN garden makes it unique . it prevent runoffs and stops mosquitos from harbouring .They arent everywhere ( they are not everywhere like u think it is) NYC is a concrete jungle. dont not mistake NYC for whole New York State, while NYC itself is huge. What seems like “alot” for other isnt for us. these garden areas brings us , green spaces, and a useful garden. The one of the ones ive found are located near a church. great places to meet & socialize. As Concrete jungle , rain can cause floods if the drainage is clogged which is normally due to garbage etc. in exchange we got public gardens that are gardens…that do rain management… if u dont live here… it wont be unique to you…
As @cyndiepooh said, a garden is not by definition a great place to explore. You must make the case why people would specifically seek out these gardens to go see. Just because it is a prettier thing to pass by than a lamppost when walking down the sidewalk does not make it a great place to explore.
Also, it’s irrelevant that one is near a church. If the church is a great place to socialize, it should be nominated but has no impact on the garden.
There could possibly be an argument for why they are great places to explore, but the simple fact that they exist is not enough. And 12,000 is a lot. It averages out to 1 for every 10 city blocks in NYC. The advice you are getting is that your approach is not going to persuade some reviewers, so it might be worth rethinking.
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its hard to convince a viewer that dont live in a condense concrete jungle why green designated gardens that also do rain manage provide by the city is important for us. you see 12,000 is as alot. NYC alone have 8 million people as a city the whole state has 20 million people. for 8 million people we have 12,000 city garden spaces? its still not enough. we barely have healthy wildlife out here ,we have to travel just to get out of city air. Not only do we get gardens we get rain gardens. double purpose.
I’ve been to NYC and lived in DC. People probably have a much better understanding than you think. We’re really trying to give you advice based on lots of cumulative experience.
No one is saying that rain gardens are not an important part of infrastructure for the city. But again, that is not the same argument as a great place to explore. That’s where you keep missing the mark.
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How is it not a great to explore? it does the same purpose a community garden but on a smaller scale.
I think you are missing my point - I’m not disputing whether it’s important or needed. Canalisation is needed, lampposts are needed, water runoff areas are needed. Flood control is needed, mosquito control is needed. All of these are crucial, important infrastucture. But being infrastructure, even crucial, doesn’t yet make a POI. And it doesn’t seem to make a community garden, either, because a community garden is a shared plot for people to grow their plants together with their community. What many people in the comments are trying to show you is that some context is missing here to understand how this fenced area with the label stands out from the same one on the next block over and what distinguishes it from infrastructure, or what is different between the 5 you have shown, what would make it worthwhile to come explore THIS ONE as opposed to the 5 others on the block. This is neither negative nor personal, this is to help you address what seems to be the likely problem with community reviewers and ML here.
I have also been to NYC, fwiw, but note that the context of your nomination should be understandable for everyone, not just reviewers from your city, if it is only understandable to dwellers of said concrete jungle it might again be time to rethink the approach.
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I live in Brooklyn.
I always reject rain gardens when I come across them in reviews and report them as invalid during my gameplay. They are in A LOT of neighborhoods and increasing every month as NYC Parks department installs more and more of them. You can see a map of how many of them here Green Infrastructure Program Map They are NOT unique or interesting. In some neighborhoods there’s 3-4 of them PER BLOCK STREET.
These rain gardens are as much uninteresting scurge on Wayfarer as FDNY Callboxes.
If a friend comes to visit you from out of town, are you going to take them to show off this rain garden? And that rain garden? And that rain garden? And that rain garden? And that rain garden? And that rain garden?
If you were to do that to me, I’d think you are a boring person and there’s nothing interesting in your city, and I regret coming there.
But this is NYC! We have A TON of more interesting stuff to submit!
You can do a lot better than these rain gardens.
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At the same time, not every single neighborhood is required to have wayspots in whatever game you play. Some neighborhoods really are just sleeper communities with nothing interesting to submit. That doesn’t mean you should start bending the rules of what’s acceptable or submit nominations with stuff like “there are no pokestops around, please approve.”
If anything, that should be a motivation for you to champion your community to make it a better, more interesting place to live. Petition your local community board, local elected officials and local businesses to put some beautification effort into your community.
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This is an official leaflet about NYC rain gardens
These are the sort of features that we need to have in our cities to manage environmental change.
Having greenery in a concrete jungle is very important. Anyone who lives in a city knows how precious green space is. So I hope this project thrives.
Not everything in the world around us meets the criteria for wayfarer. It is great that you are passionate about these, but the hard truth is that they don’t meet criteria.
They do not meet the great place to explore as they are quite small and the normal pattern of installation is that a few metres away is another one. They are not big enough to walk around in the garden and there is no place to relax and socialise as part of their design.
By latching on to the term “garden” you are assuming that word carries with it a lot of weight that ensures acceptance. This is simply not how it works. No matter what term is used it is up to the submitter to show it meets criteria.
I realise that it is disappointing to hear the views of experienced wayfinders who have looked at these, not supporting your submission, but I hope you now understand why they are getting rejected.
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This is confusing, one Ambassador says they loved destinated garden area, another ambassador says, it was a unfair rejection due to ML, now another ambassador is saying it isn’t eligible.
We’re different people with different views and opinions
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Keep in mind that nothing is guaranteed as eligible. A nomination needs to do its very best through all aspects of the nomination (Photo, title, description, supplemental info and photo) that it meets Niantic eligibility.
ML sometimes gets it wrong. We think it is largely based on the photo, but it can include other aspects.
People on the other hand may look at a variety of aspects of a nomination. Folks here aren’t wrong by saying that they need more to vote positively on something like this. I guess I’d ultimately advocate that you take the recommendations on board for whatever you choose to do next. If you appeal you’ll need to do a good job to add additional information. If you choose to nominate again I’d recommend using Cyndies photo advice or wait until spring. Don’t give people a reason to reject.
Best of luck!
I would demand proof, but I can only ask to see it via a Wayspot nomination.
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The views offered by the Ambassadors do not reflect the opinions of Niantic themselves.
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Are you referring to these comments?
This does not clash with what some of us have been trying to say about whether this should be considered a garden that is worth exploring.
This is a guess that the ML rejection was based on snow in the photo. And he has a great point that both the ML model and human reviewers need to learn that snow does not make a nomination ineligible. He never gave an opinion on this nomination that I saw.
And this comment is just saying what I have been trying to say. Not that it is ineligible, but that you need to convince why THIS specific garden should be accepted on its own merits.
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This! This is the idea I have been unable to get across.
i came to understanding, everyone from regulars to Ambassadors has a different opinion on this topic. Every person is going to find supporting details for their case on the matter.
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I can tell you really care about submitting and really wanted to help and was so frustrated that I couldn’t. Sometimes the ones I am most convinced are easy accepts are the hardest to get through.
The Rain Garden near me is the only one of its kind in the area, and it does have informative signage. I go there a lot! If the Rain Gardens in your area are so frequent, similar to each other, and lack public-interest features, though, I’d likely side with the other community members here and opt for “not unique” rejection. In your examples, I can’t tell one garden from another, so what makes this one in particular stand out?
My advice will always be to appeal, though, especially for ML rejections. If you can make a good case for inclusion, Niantic’s appeal team should have the final say.
I live in a northern climate myself, and for a large part of the year here everything’s snow-covered - but still an existing object. Even a community garden co-op, a slam-dunk in other seasons, can be difficult to capture in the winter months. I love a good snow photo! With Rain Gardens especially, snow cover is a vital part of the water cycle. I don’t like seeing anything auto-rejected because it has snow on top. I’d rather get real human eyes on the candidate to review.
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